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Rosie O. confirmed it on WWHL live last night (and supposedly in some article in the NY Times but I can't find it)

Found a link for you, OP:

[quote]Rosie O’Donnell Talks Whitney Houston’s Rumored Girlfriend Robyn Crawford: ‘Everyone’ Knew About Her Sexuality

Were Whitney and Rosie friends? I don't think so. But she did show up to her show once.

From the NYT

[quote]Being out as lesbian or bisexual certainly would have confused audiences in 1985, said the actress and comedian Rosie O’Donnell, who knew Ms. Houston and Ms. Crawford socially and said she had “no doubt” they were together and that what they had “was real.” (Ms. Crawford declined to speak for this article, and did not submit to an interview for “Whitney: Can I Be Me”). ... Back then, Ms. O’Donnell said, “There was no Ellen. There was no ‘Will & Grace.’ Lois Smith was my publicist, and she was Whitney’s publicist. When I would go to a show or the Emmys with my girlfriend Kelly, Lois would literally sit between us. She wasn’t doing it to be mean to Kelly. She was trying to protect me.”

Fantastic read.

If you watched the recent Showtime documentary on Whitney, Robyn was very obviously a stone-cold dyke and Whitney's lover.

Picture it. L.A., 1980s...

It was indeed common knowledge that Whitney and Robyn were a couple (hanging out at Jewel's Catch One, as well as that women's bar on Santa Monica Blvd. in West Hollywood... forgotten the name).

Also common knowledge that Jodie Foster, Kelly McGillis and Sheila E. liked the ladies. I think Sheila E. is still closeted.

Rosie O’Donnell On Whitney Houston’s Girlfriend | WWHL

So Bobby Brown would just drop by or...? How did this sort of thing work?

I for one congratulate Robyn for walking off this mess. The drugs, the religious hypocrisies, Cissy's evil ways. She took care of her own life and became a happy open lesbian with a family, a women she loves and who loves her.

Is Bobby Brown gay? If not why he married a lesbian?

She was insistent on playing straight by the early 90s. He was young, dumb, and fell in love with her. You can't blame him. She was a top recording artist and very wealthy. She was also slim and attractive, so what's not to like? She needed cover from all the lesbian rumors and used him for his bad boy, urban image. It was definitely a mutually beneficial relationship.

[quote] It was definitely a mutually beneficial relationship.

and then she (and her daughter) died.

According to the documentary, Robyn stuck around for 9 yrs after Whitney married Bobby. Robyn and Bobby were constantly fighting both verbally and physically. Finally, she had enough and left.

There's a scene in the documentary where Bobby puts his arm around Robyn's neck and it almost turns into a chokehold. Robyn clearly looks very uncomfortable.

Robyn's obituary for Whitney was absolutely beautiful, and I will leave my curiosity there. I don't remember a better expression of love and grief.

R8 There is a post floating around on DL about BB and WH. It goes something like when BB checked into rehab he mentioned in group that when Clive suggested he marry WH he said she was bi. However after they were married he realized she was 100% gay. Someone leaked this info to the press and that they had to pull BB out of rehab to maintain WH's cover.

R15, thank you for posting this. It was such an odd situation. Like for the 9 years that Robyn stuck it out, did the three of them live together? Eat breakfast together? Like, in Hollywood lavender marriages, what is the modus vivendi if you're not like Claudette Colbert and whoever her husband was, living in completely separate houses?

Jillian Barbieri said BB and WH tried to flirt with her and pick her up. They kept getting her name wrong though and she realized they were confusing her with a porn star who was famous for doing a lot of lesbian sex scenes.

Nobody on Datalounge gives a shit about these dumb dykes!

R18 Man the hate for women on DL is so fucking tired.

You seriously sound like a neanderthal. Grow the fuck up.

R19 that's what the "fucking forget" and the "delete existence" orange buttons are for.

[quote]Nobody on Datalounge gives a shit about these dumb dykes!

Please kindly fuck off!

Did Robyn cut off all contact with Whitney when she left the tour?

Is robyn yhe top? Or whiney?

And her protector, Clive Davis, is gay too!

If Whitney was gay, how does Bobby Brown fit into all of this?

Ok - what Rosie said is true. Everyone knew. I heard it soooo many times in the gay community. And they were pretty open about it - the press would never cover it due to their connections.

Was it common in the pre-internet/cell phone camera days for closeted famous people to visit gay bars and other gay establishments? Today it would be impossible for them to do that without it being on Twitter in two seconds.

R27 - yes it happened. Look to Freddie Mercury, also the lead singer of Judas Priest, and many others.

[quote]If Whitney was gay

I thinks she was probably bi and her religious upbringing played a part in her going straight as well. I mean she kept close friendships with people like Kim Burrell. She was practically surrounded by homophobic churchies. Combined with the hood trash her husband brought into the relationship, I don't think she was hardly surrounded by sophisticated or educated folks in her last ten years.

She was a very dumb and simple minded girl and there was quite a difference between the elegance and the class of her singing and who she was as a person.

R29 - it's harsh to call her dumb and simple-minded. This is a woman who modeled internationally and had sung in stadiums by the age of 24.

She was young - but that doesn't make her dumb, just not life-lived. And women can be elegant but also can call shit out. I liked that about her.

She got with Bobby Brown after she was booed at the BET awards - it was quick and unexpected. Her mother is a big homophobe - she just made decisions everyone was pushing her to do.

Seriously, EVERYONE heard about Robin in the 80's and early 90's.

R6 The 'Palms'!

I would see Whitney and Robyn shopping in Westwood all the time in matching outfits. Lol

[quote]it's harsh to call her dumb and simple-minded

Maybe it was, but I remember seeing interviews with her and she always came across as not very bright. She was brainwashed by her upbringing and as an adult didn't bounce off of it. She had all the resources at hand to get off drugs and give her daughter a better environment. Yet she slipped even further into it and kicked all the smart people out of her life. All her life she looked for love in the worst places. I just don't think she was a very bright person.

I don't think it's a case of being bright or not. Many an intelligent person is an alcoholic or other substance abuser.

I was most struck by her brother Gary's claim that he tried heoin when he was barely in double digits. I got the impression that the Houston kids were left to fend for themselves. What was John Houston doing while Cissy was at recording sessions? It's one thing for teens and later to rebel and go off the rails but pre teen kids taking drugs? Those kids must have been raised by the streets, even if they had material comfort.

I've gotten the impression that all Whitney was raised to be was a people pleaser. And I think she became disillusioned very quickly. She seems tired and over it by the time of interviews for her third album. I think the people pleasing is at the route of her rebellion. She flipped the table and said goodbye to "good girl" and dove into hedonism. People pleasing got her material wealth but it exacerbated the issue of having people around her who seemed chiefly invested in what Whitney could do for them, even her beloved father. It's not surprising that she essentially "fuck y'all" and gave into chemical pleasures. She got to go the warm, chill, safe place of chemicsl oblivion.

It's not just the drugs she couldn't kick, it's also her hypocritical family and her religious upbringing, all of her family members were leeches. She just couldn't see that, she couldn't comprehend was was wrong in her life.

from Rolling Stone's 1993 interview

I read some stuff about myself in the last year – it's like "Who the fuck are they talking about?" I mean, they talk about my husband. . . . They don't even know him. They have no idea who he is. They don't know what we're like when we're in this house.

[bold]Are you referring to the rumors that you were having a relationship with Robyn Crawford?[/bold]

You know what? I am so tired of this. I'm really sick of it. People want to know if there is a relationship: [bold]Our relationship is that we're friends.[/bold] We've been friends since we were kids. She now is my employee. I'm her employer. And we're still best of friends. That's what it is. [bold]You mean to tell me that if I have a woman friend, I have to have a lesbian relationship with her? That's bullshit.[/bold] There are so many, so many female artists who have women as their confidantes, and nobody questions that. So I realize that it's like "Whitney Houston – she's popular, let's fuck with her.' [bold]I have denied it over and over again, and nobody's accepted it.[/bold] Or the media hasn't.

People out there know I'm a married woman. [bold]I mean, what kind of a person am I – to be married and to have another life?[/bold] First of all, my husband wouldn't go for it – let's get that out of the way, okay? He's all boy, and he ain't goin' for it, okay? But I'm so fucking tired of that question, and I'm tired of answering it.

I mean, what kind of a person am I – to be married and to have another life?

- Whitney Elizabeth Houston

I thought it was interesting that Whitney got real close with alicia keys before her death, Alicia said in an interview that they would get in their pajamas and have a sleep over, Interesting!

Their close relationship caused speculation that Houston was gay, a rumor the singer has denied. "I know what I am," she told Out magazine in May. "I'm a mother. I'm a woman, I'm heterosexual. Period."

Whitney seemed to have a chip on her shoulder in most interviews, even in the early days. I read she wanted out of the business by the late 80's. What a shame.

Bobby was the victim in this as Whitney KNOWING she was gay still married Bobby anyway and CONTINUED an extra marital lesbian affair.

Bobby pings maybe he's gay?

Don't you think Bobby might have had a clue, r40? Especially woth the rumors and Robin still in Whitney's life.

She sounds very defensive in that RS interview.

Since we are talking about closeted lesbians, when is Oprah and Gayle's LTR going to become public? I saw an interview O did with Whitney's mother and grilled her about Whitney's sexuality, I thought it was the height of hypocrisy.

The recent documentary some have referenced in this thread is "Can I Be Me".

It's an excellent film and required viewing for all Whitney Houston fans.

It also clearly documents her long term relationship with Robyn for any doubters.

Whitney seemed very unhappy. It's sad her life didn't turn out differently.

[quote]Whitney seemed to have a chip on her shoulder in most interviews, even in the early days. I read she wanted out of the business by the late 80's.

She wanted out but couldn't leave because a whole ecosystem of leeches, including Clive Davis, depended. on her. Clive wouldn't be so legendary as a record mogul if he didn't have Whitney on his CV. In the late 90s, she bought a house in St. Lucia planning to retire there after the promotion and tour for My Love Is Your Love was over, but no one, especially her family, would let her.

Whitney's family and especially Bobby's family and entourage were bloodsuckers and parasites. Just watching Bobby's obnoxious ass in that documentary was enough to make me want to smack him. Whitney should've told all of them to GO FUCK THEMSELVES and set out for that house in St. Lucia with Robyn and lived the life she should've lived. It's all so terribly sad.

Bobby most certainly knew she was sleeping with other women while they were married and he didn't care. I know someone who hooked up with him in the 90s after meeting him at a party. She said he told her he didn't feel guilty about sleeping around with other women because Whitney was doing the same thing. They had an open marriage and Whitney would definitely get her needs met with women.

Bobby had no reason to give up a good thing. He had access to her money, lifestyle, and could fuck whomever he wanted. What's not to like about that?

Whitney and Robin were a couple in the mid 80s when she hit it big. Davis knew it- hell he was a professionally closeted man himself. I agree Whitney was not too bright. It’s not hard to tell by her choice of material- mostly pop and junk- nothing a singer of with her talent could really become a great artist with. I don’t think she used drugs etc because she was dumb, but I don’t think she had the strength of character to assert herself either professionally or personally. She drowned in her dysfunctional family and the leeches who can surround all huge stars. Drugs were her way out. Whitney was no Streisand it Madonna- Whitney’s life was a tragedy.

I remember some years before her death she gave a frank interview where she said the industry wanted her to go the Diana Ross route and marry a white man.

Difference is that Ross' children seem fine and Ross herself managed to bring up a tight and functional family. The dismissive-ness with how Whitney Houston rejected she could ever marry a white man was quite shocking. I think the Houston clan is a toxic cesspool of black church backwards thinking. Black church influence probably was the biggest problem in her life.

She came across incredible simple minded and defensive in interviews, and I think she somehow knew that her upbringing didn't provide her with enough coping mechanisms. Yet she was unwilling to draw a line and live her own life instead of what her mother the black thrash she hung out with and the church folks wanted her to be. Her surroundings killed her and she was egoistic enough to even bring up a child in that environment. Nobody should feel sorry for her.

In the 80s, I was friends with the guy who booked talent on SNL.

He told me that Paul Simon told him Whitney was gay.

I was shocked.

What did Paul Simon say about Debbie?

[quote]So Bobby Brown would just drop by or...? How did this sort of thing work?

For women, I don’t think sexuality is that simple….unless it is. Their sexuality is not as black and white as ours. Frankly, they are more evolved. For us, it’s primarily about sex. Women need a connection beyond the physical and they can find that in both genders and I think that was the case with Whitney. I’m not one of those “I don’t do labels” kind of people but...shit I guess I am at least for women.

And Bobby Brown doesn't "Ping." GTFOH

R57 And Bobby Brown doesn't "Ping." GTFOH

Sarcasm? Bobby pings to high heaven and he's gay as fuck

OMG young Whitney was such a Soft Butch Baby Dyke:

Serving All the Sous Chef That I Need at r59.

Folks in her circle are very very loyal to her memory, very protective. The unenlightened, face it bigoted protectors of Cissy, keep the mythology going that she was “straight.” All about Mama’s jealousy that it was Robyn that shared the building of her career/events. (Whitney went to Cissy for all things music - but Crawford was the every day. Nippy, inc handles the legal.) There are smart compassionate family members that totally respect who Robyn was in all this. Someday I hope members of her family do the right, ethical thing and acknowledge Robyn’s role in life. She went thru hell to have that relationship - and so did Robyn. They were together nearly a decade if not a bit more.

The documentary kind of got it a tiny bit wrong - they ended it with her leaving the tour to head back to the states or Austria it was kind of unclear. I dont believe she left then, but cant say exactly when. Also Whitney owned two homes on adjoining property.

Who said she bought a home in St Lucia? (I am very curious about that - have been there many times.) She owned a LOT of property, Williams Island, ATL, Edgewater, NJ.

Have to go with what Robyn said about brown “She wanted a child.” Yes to that.

Once Brown had her money, his true colors came through. He was very abusive to her, any woman in that kind of situation would feel very alone. Her lifelong hairdresser told the truth - Whitney felt a lot of despair trapped in a loveless marriage built on enabling with an immature mess of a man that encouraged and exacerbated her previous partying into full blown addiction.. She left him several times in the early 90’s. Robyn stayed, There are many stories shared by people that were close to Crawford & Houston - they did go out with Brown in public. Clubs in NJ.

Cissy is also rumored to be a lesbian

R62 It was her choice she could've leave his merkin Bobby Brown anytime she wanted but didn't she did want this fake image, to be there and seen w men to fool public and her fans even if these men were the worst like Brown or like his last merkin who was the (closeted gay) guy in leaked Kardashian sex tape

If Bobby Brown is "gay af," then he gives Yusef Mack a run for his money as to being the gay man who has fathered the most seedlings the old fashioned way.

If I may speak honestly for a moment, is there a biological element in African mean which allows them to easily attain an erection and complete the deed even when they are not very attracted to the subject? There seem to be a pretty fair number of men in ATL who are following this pattern as well.

To hear the white queens here at DL tell it, the idea of going near a vagina is vomit inducing; so it amazes me that a man such as Yusef Mack and BB can father gazillion babies.

Troll harder. You can't be ignorant of the existence of gay men who married women and procreated.

I am not a lesbian! I am the Boy Wonder!

I agree she could have left him at anytime - but not really. She had quelled the Lesbian rumors, had a delightful daughter. Also her brutally homophobic asshole parents finally had to shutup with the Robyn hate, she found a manchild and one with his own money - sortof. Maybe she thought she had established to him that Crawford had equal footing, if not more, after all the Diva’s career pays the bills. Brown probably more than once threatened to spill the goods, take the kid, she tried to leave him early as a year post marriage. She may have loved him, but surely his bipolar mania and abuse must have been a damn nightmare. Imagine being “The Whitney Houston” and unable to have the confidence that she could seek professional help to get away from him & keep it out of the news. By not dumping him, it only deepened her drug problem

BB has referred endlessly to “the talks Whitney and I had.” More or less “I understand how important other people can be to her.” He even went on to say he understood bisexuality and believe it or not he ”joked” “I could be bisexual!” SO yeah he sure said it.

I have no sympathy for Cissy Houston at all. None. Nasty, bitter old bitch.

Whitney Houston could not come out in 1989, and still remain America's Sweetheart.

Cissy and Clive built that glass cage for her, and Whitney was under alot of pressure to sing as powerfully as possible and make as much money as possible for her loved ones. She hated disappointing others, and lived for the approval of her mother. Cissy is the showbiz mother hen after all who taught Whitney how to hone her gift of song. Whitney was tormented by her double life, but she was wise enough to impart a few hints in her art. She put her girlfriend Robyn as her male love interest on the motorbike in her I'm your Baby Tonight video, which appears to take place in a vintage lesbian bar.

Go back and listen to the first introductory lines to I Will Always You where she is sitting in the chair backwards in a suit. That song was her goodbye to Robyn. She married Bobby Brown in 1992. Robyn was her bridesmaid. " If I should stay. I would only be in your way So I'll go but I know. I'll think of you every step of the way"

R66 I guess you directed that to me, though I don't know why.

Of curse I am aware of gay men who marry women and they produce children, but here at DL we are assured that most of them are turkey baster pregnancies. And you can't deny that most of the men here seem to find the idea of sex with a woman to be revolting. So my question was, is there something inherent in African men which allows them to perform with partners who disgust them. I mean, sure, I can see a gay man doing it a few times when there is a necessity, but how can you explain a gay man like Yusef Mack who fathers 15 children? If Bobby Brown is gay, why does he continue to father children and selecting female partners at his advanced age?

I really wasn't trolling I'm not even sure how my questions could be perceived as trolling. I thought maybe someone would be nice enough to share some input with me. I had not intention of offending anyone.

Jesus Christ, has R72 ever heard of bisexuality?

Do you not realize there are also many married white men with children that have sex with men? They're called Republicans.

There are also many Muslim, Latino, Asian "straight" men that marry women for procreation, but deal with men for fun as they put it. This is not a black phenomenon at all

[quote] Rosie O. confirmed it on WWHL live last night

How would she know? was she there when they fucked? Being a celebrity does not mean you are automatically privy to the lives of other celebrities.

[quote] it's harsh to call her dumb and simple-minded. This is a woman who modeled internationally

God knows models are obviously far from dumb or stupid!!!

R74, 12/17/1960.

They met in 1979 when 16 year old Whitney and 19 year old Robyn were both working summer jobs together at an East Orange, NJ community center.

Leo and Sag seems like a fire match made in hell!

I think for Whitney it was a combination of being bisexual (I don't think she was a full on lez), giving in to industry pressure and being brainwashed by her religious upbringing that being lesbian is against god's will.

Also with BB she could go full on drugs, which was what she wanted. Lots of factors why she married BB.

[Quote] How would she know? was she there when they fucked? Being a celebrity does not mean you are automatically privy to the lives of other celebrities.

Eh... because the Lez Muffia is tiny? You don't have to see two people fuck to see that they're a couple.

You're wondering why you're perceived as trolling when you ask about "African men" and Bobby Brown in the same paragraph? I don't know a Yusuf Mack, and I won't respond to it.

R75 is a LSA troll that hates Robyn and thinks Gay women like to fuck in public., and should fuck in public so she/he can get off on it.

There is a clinical psychologist they were friends with, that will speak openly, freely about their relationship. He greatly admired thier mutual respect for one another as well as the nurturing they exhibited around others. This person is well aware of the bigotry they faced and speaks very freely about them now. Also has stated that given the strong intimate relationship they had - he was astounded to see Bobby coming around and couldn’t IMAGINE wtf he was doing popping up in a domestic life clearly built around an intimate relationship between the 2 of them.

R72 the only inherent part of your post is a disgusting racism and you should be flamed for it, along with R75. Did it ever occur to you that Women will often seek to have a child with a man as means to cement their relationship? In Whitney’s case she wanted a child BEFORE she hooked up with Bobby apparently. In Browns case his current wife was probably really fearful of his ties to Whitney so needed something to further strengthen thier bond. He is a fool to keep dropping babies - that is for sure.

R75 has no idea that GLBT people like to party together so they can be themselves which means holding hands, all PDA’s, all Iike regular human beings that are - except LGBT people can be fired or murdered around the world for PDA’s or fucking in public. R75 thinks Magical Gays are only there for her/his entertainment and will fuck in front of her/him.

You are on a Gay Thread R75 - take your hater messed up ass out of here.

R77 maybe not. Whitney could be achingly funny, and if there is one thing a Sag loves above all else it is a funny, smart woman. Also a Sag will happily sit back and watch the games as long as they can be part of the planning. A Leo & Sag are supreme entertainers and unstoppable force for creativity. I dont doubt there were tons of epic arguments but they were the most powerful couple in Music - except for Barry and Diana. They were Oprah and Gail powerhouses before there was Oprah.

Whitney had both attributes in abundance - throw in they were both drop dead gorgeous. Also they had a fantastic life together if not for Mom & Dad and crazy pressure to produce.

It has been brought to my attention that “Like I never left” was actually Whitney’s Swan Song to Robyn. Whitney clearly saw the damage done and she was totally finished with Bobby - she had ruined her reputation, her career, her voice and gift while in that relationship. Her career had flourished when she was partnered with Crawford - and in the early years of her marriage before it became a horrible crushing burden to her.

Same person noted that many of the lines reflected her life w/Crawford: “you and me together we are back on top” -“if it wasnt for me we were going to last” “Yr girls not holding back no more”

I remember reading this when it went live. Some of the comments are interesting. Not sure I believe the Whitney & Robyn getting down in the woods story.

Mixtress' comment is interesting, a lesbian NY/NJ contemporay's rememberance.

She was les not bi, but her mother and religious upbringing forced her into a hetero life style with husband and kid etc. She was extremely unhappy hence why she turned to drugs.

If you saw the Showtime Documentary there was a lot of truth to it. Her family sued to keep it from airing. In fact the producer and the cinematographer that filmed her concert spoke to the audience after the premier. I believe that later they edited some of the language to Speak less directly using the “L word.”

Apparently that is what the suit was about. The film could be shown but I wone scene was quickly removed between airings - I know because i was taking notes practically fell out of my seat on this one. A very close, lifelong friend is stating (I’m paraphrasing) on film : “Cissy is going around yelling ‘Lesbian, Lesbian, Lesbian’” and here I am thinking “Lady you better get your priorities in order cause you have 3 kids in houses and all of them are dealing with addicition problems!”

So what was it? That is reflected negatively on Cissy or was it outing Whitney? Honestly I cant figure it out - the court ruled the film could open - but that was the scene that was replaced. What if the real issue was that it made Cissy look like the bitch she probably was back then? The rest of the film did address their relationship. I was sad that there was no mention of the the power in their relationship - though Robyn displayed terrific love, tender feelings for her old friend. There was a very poignant, intimate moment when Crawford reached down and removed a cummerbund from around Whitney’s waist as she lounged nearly supine between sets. Whitney was visibly vulnerable open to Crawford in a way that looked very private. There is no way that moment could be ignored and it never should be.

They had a remarkable love and that is all.

R75 She was out to everyone except public and her fans she was out to her friends colleagues etc everyone in the showbiz knew she was gay

She wasn't bi she was les wait until her gay husband dies and the truth will be out

R71 Cissy and Clive built that glass cage for her

She was a grown ass woman she made her choices don't make excuses for her because you are a fan

She wasn't forced to marry Bobby Brown she wasn't force to stay closeted it was all her choices

R87 So what was it? That is reflected negatively on Cissy or was it outing Whitney?

outing Whitney

R90 is a pissed off Cissy lover - the new tactic? Demonstrate the same cluelessness now that the truth is finally out there.

“Whitney could have come out - it was HER doing!” In the words of John Beluschi “Jane you ignorant twat -Not so fast” the US was in the grips of hating LGBT people for the AIDS epidemic. Churches across the country were harassing gay people, praying for them to mend thier evil ways, so stop pretending like it was easy. Plus Whitney was selling her sex appeal to film audiences now. From your post I gather you would’ve been one of her detractors for doing that same thing

Why should I be the fan of a singer's mother? really? try harder lol

I don't care if Whitney or anyone else wants to stay in closet but fake relationships and sham marriages is a big NO

R93/R94 you clearly have no idea wat this country was like during the AIDS epidemic. Think Trumps war on immigrants on steroids. No, really. Actually it is largely due to attitudes like yours that Whitney was deeply closeted. Maybe you could have a little compassion if you knew she had A large philanthropic .org that she funded. So, you know, no gay.

she wasn't a good live performer, "Can I Be Me" makes that clear, although it could be the drugs. That documentary contains not one good performance from her. I think her national anthem performance was lipsynched. I also didn't like any of her records because they weren't funky or "black" enough. I hated those sappy power ballads and her Star Search vocals.

R96 is a: Streisand troll or a Garland troll or a Grande troll but not a Mariah troll because Mariahs fans understand there was love.. So why the hell are you in a Whitney & Robyn thread on an LGBT forum? Or are you simply a gay basher?

R96 I think her national anthem performance was lipsynched.

Yes it was lip synced

She had a lovely voice before drugs changed her voice (during her first three albums and The Bodyguard soundtrack) but she wasn't a great singer she had poor technique that led to vocal damage

This is a site every closeted gay celebs from Tammy to Ricky Martin and George Michael are bashed for staying closeted but somehow Whitney is a fan favorite here I wonder why?

She was a star before she could lean stagecraft. Sure, she sang behind Cissy in clubs, but I wouldn't say that Cissy had much to teach her in that regard anyway.

The MTV era really did change things. Acts used to have to learn to hold their own on package tours or at sit down stints at the Apollo etc.

Whitney was further hampered by being unable to dance. But most of her fans didn't care. She could really deliver in close up. The camera loved her and her smile was beautiful.

She stayed in closet for her career and her image period stop with the bs and attacking posters

R96 “I think she lipsinked The Star paneled Banner.” This has been well established in news reports. she didnt lipsink she sang OVER her recording. Insurance policies require performers/singers do these recordings for the biggest games since uncontrollable circumstances can and do occur - such as commercial aircraft unexpectedly appearing overhead. Not a big deal by any means.

Her “star search vocals” whatever you think of them are the stuff of legend and remain the gold standard of professional vocal coaches To this day. Her lung capacity and seamless scales are seldom duplicated. Thanks for playing!

This is a thread about Whitney Houston and Robyn. Not about haters.

The church did a big number on Whitney of course with all that bible thumping anti gay BS. Look at Tyler Perry today. He's doing the same damn thing now parading around with a wife -dear god- and kid.

Whitney was a lesbian alright, but when your mother tells you she'd rather see you dead than gay and your strongest cultural attachment, the church, is explicit about its conditions re belonging you're going to marry some guy

What i don't understand is why didn't Clive find a handsome gay husband for Whitney so she could have kept Robyn and satisfied her mother and the curious public?

Well Bobby is gay but not handsome

I wish that was true about Brown - but there was a point in which a close friend/employee of Whitney’s had to sue Nippy, Inc. because Brown was sexually harassing her. Right under Whitney’s roof no less. So I give him Bi, and still not handsome.

She did have friends that found her beards regularly - literally she could and did pick up the phone upon which handsome men would appear at her side. It has been pretty funny to watch the stans swear up and down about her “romances and all her boyfriends” when unbeknownst to them they are in discussions with those that made the very calls - lol.

But look there is NO JUDGING WHITNEY here - she had a ton of dough, kept a safe distance from the outside world and was deeply deeply beloved By her friends. Whitney was one of the MOST STANDUP, loving kind women in the world by all accounts. Her friends would die for her and they have never ever gotten over her passing. The world was ugly to Whitney - asshole homophobes everywhere, parents that harassed her relentlessly over her lover. And then the fame and fans and churchladies and all the gay boys she gave jobs to that made music with her. She understood and felt everyday the racial animus and homophobia. She stayed sweet and thoughtlful and hoped it would be enough.

Ugh, a cousin was on the beach in Hawaii a few metres from Whitney and co back in the day and he was quite surprised how loud and abusive she was to staff.

Yeah, well and who doesnt have a bad day - esp when youare hassled day & night by paparazzi.

True. And drugs booze and sun.

[Quote] Whitney was one of the MOST STANDUP, loving kind women in the world

Nonsense. A stand up individual would not have allowed their child to be raised around drugs. Bobbi Kristina never had a chance.

Whitney Houston's rendition of the anthem at the 1991 Super Bowl was also reported to have been lip-synched.

R110 I believe your story I have read that she was abusive to staff it seems many female singers are like that Lopez, Mariah, Madonna, Adele, ...

R108 It was probably a fake story planted in tabs by Bobby Brown himself in attempt to heterosexualise himself for example see Ryan Seacrest

Here's some words from a British music person:

#1

[Quote] Much as i loved Whitney she could be very difficult. I worked with her on two occasions First time was in 1985 when she was clean. Whilst she fell short of being downright rude she was rather awkward and unco=operative at times, yet she could be as sweet as honey if she was in a good mood. The second occasion was in the late 80;s [sic] during the MY LOVE IS YOUR LOVE era. I am not going into detail but to say she was difficult would be a gross understatement. Having said that she apologised to me for her behaviour and i gladly accepted that apology. I loved Whitney and could forgive her anything.

[Quote] I worked with Whitney on a couple of occasions when she visited the UK. On both occasions Robin was present. Rumours abounded about a possible relationship and I recall everything was shrouded in secrecy , but I never saw or heard anything concrete to confirm the rumours. I would be telling lies if I said I enjoyed these occasions and these were very weird times and I felt very uncomfortable in her company.

[Quote] i worked with Whitney on two occasions so i know full well that she was a very difficult lady to say the least, but i also had the "pleasure" of working with Brown before he even met Whitney and i can honestly say that with the possible exception of Eddie Murphy he was the most difficult person i ever encountered. I am trying to remain civil here but even J lo's best efforts could not compete with this man and that is a very rash statement to make!

22 years old, such responsibility. Hassled nonstop by controlling mother, isolated from the band (according to various accounts her mother only wanted her socializing with her already druggy bros) and non stop PR gigs between shows - when the band basically takes a rest. Hardly a good time at all unless on stage. She was worked to death.

Knowing how Whitney's life turned out really shows how strong Dolly is.

An old (gay male) friend of mine had a story about doing coke with her in the bathroom of some NYC lesbian bar about 20 years ago

Not a fan of her music but I liked her when she was alive but after her death and reading about her double life, abusing staff, doing drugs in front of her kid, ... not anymore

She always went to lesbian bars I've seen at least one photo of her that she had lesbian symbol earrings she was out in the industry but not to the public

Whitney's real haters are her fans

one cannot read comments in thread linked below or similar threads in LSA or her fan forums without feeling sick and disgusted

Addiction isnt rational. She loved that kid and left her everything.

The 2nd LSA link really does expose the hate posters had for Whitney’s private life with Robyn. Pretty shocking to read.

Despite what losers. Might say they lived together in 3 different locations around NJ, the last being her mansion. They must have been very tight as a couple - the 1st apt was a total dive that Whitney described in a Vanity Fair story about Whitney’s life. The next apartment was a nice step up - condo village. She toured with her first album while living there. Lastly it was her manse, you can find pics on the web. Whit was trying to sell it at the time of her passing. They had an amazing life together.

Robyn deserves to be recognized as one of Whitney’s greatest loves, besides her daughter, and also her healthiest relationship.

R57 Are you saying ALL women are bisexual on some level? That's been debunked. Not sure why anyone would ever think that's true anyway, honestly. So many girls are repulsed and sickened by the idea of touching another woman's genitals.

However, if the argument is that way more people (of both sexes) are bisexual than we think (meaning a lot of "straight" people just choose to disregard their gay feelings because they're perfectly satisfied living "straight" and not exploring them at all), then yeah I agree that could be true.

R57 Also women don't need a connection beyond physical... A lot of them prefer there to be one but that doesn't make their sexuality any more evolved or complex. Their sexuality is the same, it's the emotional level of communication that varies, if anything.

Todd Haynes should make THE WHITNEY HOUSTON STORY as a companion to THE KAREN CARPENTER STORY.

I have no problem believing she was rude around people. She came across as a very angry and abrasive person in many interviews. It was like a combination of - this interviewer is stupid, I am above it all, I don't want to do this because I rather blow some stuff up my nose.

I think her being raised in the church made her feel very uncomfortable around non churchies and it also strangely made her feel superior because she had this 'anybody who doesn't worship god is stupid and beneath me' thing.

She was very much a product of her upbringing. Maybe some part of her realized that all the church stuff was hypocritical and false, but she never dared to break out of that vicious circle.

During her last days she hung out with Kim Burrell, completely stoned, still chasing redemption from god. She was a very dumb girl!

R129 no your obvious homophobia “touching womens genitals” is what is repulsive and ignorant. Science has quantified that Women and Men view sex differently: for men it is physical for women it is as much an emotional connection. Yes, Women may well be more bisexual - sex hinges on many more variants for them. Also you completely overlook, or are you just deliberately rejecting the Kinsey scale?

Whitney’s biggest fear was she would be asked who “Robyn” was in her life. The best way she subverted that question was by putting the interviewer off - old trick with closeted LGBT people. The hostility angle was pretty much all there was to keep a professional colleague or acquaintance out of your life. So you misjudge her public interactions totally. It had nothing to do with being angry or abrasive - she wanted people to stay out of her private life period.

[quote]Jillian Barbieri said BB and WH tried to flirt with her and pick her up. They kept getting her name wrong though and she realized they were confusing her with a porn star who was famous for doing a lot of lesbian sex scenes.

Guess they thought Jullian was Janine Lindenmulder. Jillian does look like her.

I think the entire booing episode at the Soul Train awards by Anita Baker fans was used to distract from increasing questions about her personal life. While the sting was genuine talking about that did make the public more sympathetic. Here was this astounding talent - blowing away all the female artists and like we see anytime Whitney’s name comes up there is volumes of jealousy & racism. Same back then. She was a very philanthropic person I think this bothered her. Later Brown would endlessly degrade her “as a Pop singer.” That was far more destructive to her person. He is a pig.

Everybody in the music business knew that Whitney and Robyn were bumping boxes, just like they all knew George Michael was gay.

R133 I'm not homophobic... I'm gay. Also, I'M not calling it repulsive. I don't decide how women feel about other women's bodies? I'm just telling you what I've heard from straight women. If they liked "touching women's genitals" then they wouldn't be straight. And no I'm not rejecting the Kinsey scale, I'm just saying that it's the same for both men and women. Bottom line: Straight women exist. Obviously. And what they want can't be fulfilled by a woman regardless of the degree of emotional connection. If Whitney had a relationship with a woman, it's because she wasn't straight. Not because women can "find a connection beyond the physical in both genders".

This entire convo never denied the overwhleming Het world we live in. Further women are more requiring of intimate emotional contact in relationships and no amount of jujitsu can rewrite neurobiology. Honestly I cant even imagine why you brought it up in a Whitney and Robyn are gay thread.

R136 Yes George was out to colleagues and friends since 1991

Houston's fans making up bisexual narrative because they just can't accept that she was a lesbian and lied to them about her marriage and was in relationship with a woman while she was in lavender marriage to a man.

She was not heterosexual as she claimed in many interviews and she was not bisexual either she was a lesbian just accept this.

Rosie O'Donnell On Whitney Houston's Girlfriend

R138: Because R57 is arguing that Whitney wasn't gay.

Thank you R142 & R143. & R140 I was just getting exasperated with that poster. I could tell you stories! Whitney was very very pro LGBT, I later heard that one of her band members transitioned & Whitney and Robyn helped a great deal, her former band Director from Church passed from AIDS and in all cases Whitney was solid with her crew.

As much as I want to see the pending family Documentary about Whitney - and you know it will be done with profound love, profound respect- I dread thier rending Crawford invisible or as nothing. I believe that most family members are very cool and sympathetic but will give into Cissy’s worse feelings...I will remain hopeful.

R144 IMO It's more about the gay husband being outed with Houston's outing than upsetting Whitney's mother

Bobby Brown and His Gay Outrage

Bobby Brown's ex Karrine Steffans is a serial beard she bearded for more than 80 men in the business

Thanks for that R147. Very interesting, even i could tell it was a joke.

LSA is a hateful place full of homophobes and racists

WTF did she ever see in Bobby Brown?

R147 Wow, that's quite the overreaction.

her records sucked, Elvis Costello said for a young pop star, she dresses like an old lady. She did but it was Clive's doing, he wanted the rich, white people audience for her. The only edgy thing about her was her private life. I love Chaka Khan, Aretha Franklin's records, but Whitney's were bland and most of her industry awards were bought by Arista as were a lot of her albums. I don't buy into the hype of the music industry like the saps who are fans of this fake singer.

Not all of LSA certainly - i think they have a lot of trolls, yes actual Russians that are in there to shut down the gay Whitney, then the church ladies and conflicted women so in love with Whitney (arent we all!) that mere mention of the L word sends them into a rage - which they compensate with by belittling Crawford until they are bizarrely satisfied. Then there are the old school Muslims that would hang a homosexual in seconds, the white boys on the spectrum that try to sound like they know more than they do... all a hot mess.

And then the regular, pretty cool women and men that would dearly love to have a frank discussion but are totally cowed by the freaks. I think some of them come in here instead. I cant blame them. Whitney and Robyn were a lovely lovely couple. Shame, they should have grown old together.

LSA trolls aren't Russians they are black Americans

and if they had, how would that have affected your life in any way? you deluded romantic at r154

No i believe there are a 1 or 2, and they are white Christians.

Where do Broken Hearts Go? and One Moment in Time was the epitome of cheese.

Yes, her songs were very cheesy by 80s standards, but she was marketed to appeal to older, white audiences.

Anita Baker, Sade, Donna Summer, Evelyn Champagne King, Phyllis Hyman, and Stephanie Mills were the far superior R&B divas in the 80s.

Shoop Shoop is her worst song

Shoop, shoop, shoop Shoop be doop, shoop, shoop

WTF?

The middle woman was Whitney's embalmer. She pings a bit/

R160, What a way to shutdown a thread.

Whoever said Sade was a superior diva is off their damn rocker.

Sade's signing was so terrible she was glad she hit the right note.

Anita Baker was boooring on stage, she didn't have 10% of Whitney's talent.

R162 I think you are on the wrong thread - LOL. You make a great point though!

I was just responding to R158.

If Whitney had gotten free of her bloodsucking family, I could see her and Robyn giving concerts at Michfest.

Take off the makeup and wigs and Whitney was a stone cold sweet butch.

I agree R165, her family and the hypocritical church surroundings were her undoing; and sadly is was her choice to stick with it instead of living her own life. She can't really blame anybody but herself.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r164: She was adorable. She didn't need to change.

[quote] Where do Broken Hearts Go? and One Moment in Time was the epitome of cheese.

The songs were cheesy. Yet I am struck by her live performance of WDBHG, her voice is so effortlessly thrilling. I love it. The performance is analogous to her life -- she was constrained by the four corners of a conservative crossover persona and only little bits of her could peek out now and then.

Whitney could have been a lesbian but I think it is just as likely she was attracted to men and women. We didn't have the language for her to be "queer" in the 80s like Katy Perry or Gaga are today. There is also the element of race and church that would have made it difficult for her to identify as anything other than straight. I have such compassion for her predicament.

And yet R169 in her band she offered refuge to several LGBT members of her church & surrounding communities. IT was as though She offered up the MCC version of church 15+yrs before it was established. Pretty amazing.

R169 I think it is just as likely she was attracted to men and women

You are still in denial

[quote]We didn't have the language for her to be "queer" in the 80s like Katy Perry or Gaga are today.

Katy Perry is not out and she uses merkins she's a coward

for Gaga she's out as bi (like Penn's ex beard Madonna) but as she's not openly dating any woman it's not that much

Whitney didn"t want to be saved. She got off the treadmill of work after the My Love era. She had the best part of a decade to get it together.

Instead of the ill advised concert tour, she should have got involved with production - maybe a movie or TV series - a fictional piece about a young singer. A black Wonder Years, say, with Whitney as narrator.

R173 Great point - she was an amazing producer with an impeccable track record of hits that became instant classics: Cinderella, The Princess Diaries.

Speaking as a “DL family” it was the crippled with guilt for her imperfections. She went from a controlling hyper critical mother, her early productive years with Crawford resisting Mom & Dad church vs the closet and not shaming her family, but then married an abusive equally critical man. To dump him would have made her vulnerable to his revenge of outing her, detailing her partying and taking her child away. Pretty goddamn big obstacles if you ask me. Hardly anyone ever mentions that factor. If I was her I probably would have dug into my own misery too. Ellen LaVar speaks to this - though without naming the shame and sense of isolation she felt. TRAGIC that she was treated like this and so afraid of that asshole Brown.

She had no way out - dont forget Whitney’s family required Brown to sign a prenup. He wanted her money period. He had a zillion kids - even when her daughter was brain dead in the hospital he showed up and the press reported he was in court looking to Grab Whitney’s estate. That was nearly 7 years post divorce.

Look at the way he is exploiting Whitney now. Can you imagine what he would have done in the Gay bashing 90’s if she filed for divorce? She hoped she could run out the clock on him - got it to where she was married and doing her thing, just like he was. Dont be hating on Whitney - she just married what she knew - couldnt marry who was the best and nurtured her.

People out there know I'm a married woman. I mean, [bold]what kind of a person am I – to be married and to have another life?[/bold] First of all, my husband wouldn't go for it – let's get that out of the way, okay? [bold]He's all boy[/bold], and he ain't goin' for it, okay? But I'm so fucking tired of that question, and I'm tired of answering it.

[quote]He's all boy

homophobic much?

[quote]He's all boy, and he ain't goin' for it, okay?

goin' for what? for beard/merkin contract?

[quote] She went from a controlling hyper critical mother, her early productive years with Crawford resisting Mom & Dad church vs the closet and not shaming her family, but then married an abusive equally critical man.

Her relationship with her mother was even more complicated. Cissy was jealous of Whitney's success. Cissy was a solo recording artist for more than a decade and she wanted to be a celebrated singer like her niece Dionne. When Whitney experienced that colossal success it was very difficult for her. She was proud but she also coveted Whitney's success. Cissy lived vicariously through Whitney .

Who gives a fuck what Rosie thinks? This is a woman who was PROUDLY in the closet as this clip demonstrates.

Rosie wasnt critical of Whitney - she was stating what she knew from Whitney herself, their shared publicist and mutual acquaintances.

Pretty sad between Cissy and Whitney - so much incredible love and pride in each other. When yr daughter falls for a woman and continues building those career dreams with her it had to have been infuriating to Cissy. Such a shame it sure didnt have to be that way - but that old school Baptist just doubled down with fear of being embarassed. The guilt, always the guilt over fucking nothing but her parents tiny minds and then Brown.

I give a fuck what Rosie thinks. It is interesting hearing her talk about the closet back in the 80s.

Brown: “You need to call your Girl and get rid of her!” Whitney: “Ill call ‘my girl’ when you call all of yours!”

All conversations guaranteed overheard. Robyn and Whitney maintained an unbreakable bond until 2000.

After Robyn left in 2000, that's when Whitney's spiral really began. She was hopeless after that.

It looks like Kevin McDonald is going to be focusing on Whitney’s “long term relationship with a woman” after all. That goes hand in hand with that scoundrel Brown saying he felt “she died from a Broken heart.”

But will Robyn do an interview? There remains only one person not a sibling or parent that knew Whitney as well as Robyn. That person and Robyn were who Whitney entrusted with all her business. One will talk - I really hope Crawford was asked to participate. Somehow I doubt it.

I can see all the churchlady heads on LSA exploding in July. It will be fun to see.

“Like I Never Left” cowritten by Whitney sure sounds like it was written for “her Girl.”

Whitney's quote at r176 is so sad.

R184 Do you mean Kevin Macdonald the famous director (The Last King of Scotland ) or it is someone else?

R183 She had an overdose in 1990s she was already in spiral years before she left

Macdonald. I disagree with the Edited out of context opening remark....

An unserious person... an unserious life... Holy fuck. What a supercilious dick.

Whitney's biggest problem was her immaturity. Not to distance herself from her family and the hypocritical church folks she was surrounded with her whole life. She didn't have to marry an abusive husband like BB, she could have picked someone more decent. But she didn't want to quit drugs so she looked for a guy she could do drugs with and who treated her like shit.

On top of all this she had this incredible arrogance about her, which came from her growing up in the church and the entitlement she thought this gave her. I am sure this was a big factor why she never successfully came off drugs.

I find it very difficult to feel sorry for her.

He doesn't seem to understand singing. Communicating sadness through sung vocals is no different to spoken voice. There's ambiguity in both.

the docu is officially authorized by the estate so doubt it will be anything good

I think the arrogance was a front. She was so engaging during early promotional interviews but she was already tired and guarded by the time the second album rolled around and she was being asked about her sexuality (see Ebony interview 1987 on youtube).

I don't quite buy the idea that Whitney was stuck partly due to fear that Bobby Brown would out her. Why then did she reveal that Bobby spat in her face to Oprah? That could easily have antagonised Bobby. Even his supposed revelations about her sexuality ended up watered down.

Macdonald has already made a docu about a closeted singer without mentioning his sexuality in the film I can't see how this Whitney docu would be any different

Even after she divorced Bobby Brown she did not end the bearding

R195 then did she reveal that Bobby spat in her face to Oprah

gaining sympathy

R191 I totally agree with your post

Gaining sympathy is a given. I wasn't mystified that she would reveal such an incidient. My point, which I thought was quite clear, was that she wasn't afraid of Bobby outing her if she was prepared to make him look even worse than he already did to most of America. He could have retaliated out of spite. He didn't.

Christina became collateral damage in this mess. Tragic.

R194 is correct. She did 2 albums back to back she was exhausted. Then there were the tours, global included,: bus to location the band would rest and she would have to take a flight to the nearest big city to do a promo interview. She never caught a break.

In NYC at that time Regina Brown, publicist, was already being asked and vaguely answering questions about Whitney. I know because a friend of mine was one of many that did the asking. It must have been horrible for her - so she became very very defensive with interviewers. It was all she had, gays were the subject of violence and great hate in America then.

Brown certainly did spill - right out of the marriage he made it known that to Whitney it was a marriage of convenience, but that they did love each other. I wonder if despite the prenup she gave him some money and had him sign a NDA... that would explain his guilded language.

I wonder if Brown was afraid of backlash, particularly from the black community - it isn't white people flocking to see him winded on stage with his New Edition bandmates - so he hasn't sung like a canary about their situation. That or he's playing a long game, hoping to get paid to talk about Whitney until he croaks.

R195 are you even Gay? The gay community was being blamed for AIDS, we were shunned - Reagan wouldnt even say the word. A young boy, Ryan White was shunned from school because he had HIV.

Just how do you think it was possible for Whitney Houston the biggest female vocal talent on the planet to divorce a pissed off, unmedicated, bi polar raging Brown that was furious at himself for signing a prenup? He would have dragged her, called her an unfit mother and taken her kid - end of the fucking story. You better believe that. Courts were routinely removing children from thier gay mothers - many made for Television movies covered the subject. It wasnt until after 2000 that it got better.

R204 Do you mean backlash to Brown now? Or then?

Backlash in the wake of their divorce and in the wake of her death.

He just wrapped a film of his mediocre life - she and Krissi were the highlight as far as most of the country is concerned. He is going to Make himself a total victim I’m sure. Somehow managing to overlook how all 20 members of his extended family leeched off her forever. And then smeared her in the NE. Trumps rag.

Never thought he had the control to do that - but it is possible. Maybe he was busy learning how to take his meds and STFU. As of late that Change has appeared to wear off since he is raking in Blood Money on the bodies of Whitney and their child now.

R205 called her an unfit mother and taken her kid

She was an unfit mother Whitney and Bobby Brown smoke crack in front of their five-year-old daughter

Why the fuck are you talking about Reagan when I'm talking 2000s Whitney? And Bobby could easily have bern ODed. Few would question it.

R211 Exactly and she was a lesbian not a gay man

That Cissy is a bad hombre. She is responsible for her daughter's demise and death.

R211 so you are saying she stayed with Brown after 2000 - because why exactly? She wasn’t concerned he would out her? Well then you are pretty fucking incorrect since she carried the bearding on to that wierd whispery voiced RayJ. She did want to be outed, though I believe that she would have come out herself eventually sooner rather than later. She wasnt going to do that after releasing her last album.

I I wish her Basketball women friends would have given her courage in that direction.

So the official documentary is going to say she was gay, lol, the nuts on the Whitney forum on LSA will have a fit.

R170 What are you talking about? MCC was founded in 1968.

Whitney was so far gone into drugs in the 2000s, who the fuck knows what was uppermost in her mind besides getting high. If she was so focused on the fear of Bobby outing her, why did she split from him? She had no trouble finding another man for... whatever. There was a whole machine working to in Whitney - not just people with a financial interest, people with a religious/political/racial interest. She hardly had to a damn thing - just stay home and take her drugs.

I don't believe Whitney would ever have come out. The weight of the lie was too great.

Queen Latifah has never come out and every black person I know perceives her as gay. Still, she hasn't come out. She'll take the money to play Pride gigs, but she hasn't come out. She's moved into character actor age and she hasn't come out. She gets papped embracing her girlfriend and she hasn't come out.

Whitney would not have dared do any of that. She would never have come out.

I think the drugs use and abuse what a big reason why she split with Robyn. There were several factors why she chose Bobby over Robyn, one of them was the drug lifestyle she wanted to live and I think another one was also the religious upbringing she didn't want to abandon.

Robyn was in the way of both.

I don't think she was a lesbian, she was bisexual, that's why Robyn stayed with her for many years after she married Bobby. They had a friendship that also was of a sexual nature, sure, but they both knew they could never have an ongoing sexual relationship as a couple. Industry and family pressure made Whitney chose to be straight. There was also religious pressure, not only from the outside but also Whitney put on herself was another big factor and I am sure Robyn who never cared to pretend she was anything but a lesbian clashed with Whitney over this.

But Robyn was present for years and years of Whitney's drug lifestyle...

I think Whitney overplayed the "My LORD! That's My GOD!!" stuff. She didn't even really go to church. I would have pike to have been a fly on the walk for her prayer partner sessions.

Whitney could have been a Unitarian if she wanted. Her mother's ex bandmate, Estelle Brown, joined such a church. She's an out lesbian.

I get your point about Robyn but I think people do too much trying to paint her as the Anti Bobby. She had her own experience of drugs. She appears to have got free of any drug dependency but she was by Whitney's side, doing drugs for years.

If Whitney was so into the Lord, why didn't she start going to church and choose Jesus instead of constantly going back to drugs. She stopped the church going after moving out of her home and in with Robyn. Yet in the media it was how much of a churchgoer she was, at least in the eighties. All lies.

I think Whitney herself admitted that drug use became an everyday thing after her daughter was born. I don't think Robyn ever was heavy into drugs since she was an active basketball player and a very good one at that.

In the end Whitney sided with the religious crowds, the drugs, her mother's way, her family full of leaches, with the hood trash of the Brown family. I would have left too.

Didn't Whitney OD on the set of Waiting to Exhale? Robyn was around for approx. another 5 years aftet that.

I guess at some point you decide enough is enough and you quit.

I thought Robin left her over the drug situation, that she tried to talk to Cissy about the drugs. In the end, I think what kept her with Bobby was the drugs and her not wanting everyone to say "I told you so", including the public.

I agree r231. It was the drugs and the "I told you so" factor.

Bobby was the worst thing that ever happened to her. And of course Cissy was no prize either.

"I don't think it's a case of being bright or not."

Whitney was uneducated and inarticulate. That doesn't make one dumb, but it certainly makes one appear dumb.

Clive wanted Whitney to marry a white man? I simply cannot believe that kind of shit in the 1980s. It's not like Lena Horne who had to marry a white (gay) man for career advancement in the 1940s, then go their separate ways.

R233, how old are you? ANY OF US who were alive in the '80's can certainly believe it! You have no idea how different the world was.

Inarticulate and dumb? Nonsense. She didn't appear dumb at all.

LSA haters are in the house : “But wasnt Robyn around for years and years of Whitneys Drug abuse?” (They love to pretend that false narrative besides the fact that Crawford probably was first and last an athlete with a minor in partying) Answer: Robyn was busy trying to get Whitney off to 2 or 3 interventions that were written about. In the “Can I Be Me” Doc Ellen LaVar, Whitneys lifetime friend, said that Robyn fought with Whitney constantly about getting sober. Apparently she was the only person that Whitney put up with on that issue too.

Jesus is interesting here also. Many former anti gay therapy survivors say that the focus from sexuality is shifted solely to Jeezus - since nothign can be done about praying it away... Whitney doing her “Hail Jeezus” all the time had purpose.

R234, you're a fucking retard.

Was Robyn a professional athlete? No. First and foremost, my ass.

Whitney may well have been better off with Robyn, but Whitney said herself, she was bloodyminded. If she wanted to get high, she'd damn well go and get high. Whitney was running since childhood. Robyn could be, and was, discarded whrn she got the way of Whitney's wants.

During the marriage, tabloid reporters began attending AA meetings and AA style meetings (narcotics anonymous, for example) and then reporting on what a star would say there, without explicitly saying they stalked a star to a meeting, but it would be obvious, like "Recently, Bobby Brown spoke out about the struggles in his marriage to Whitney Houston." "In a private setting, Brown expressed his frustration that his wife needed to carry on with a woman." That sort of thing. A tabloid reporter clearly sat in on one of Brown's narcotics anon meetings or whatever he was attending, and Brown did indeed express his frustration with both Whitney's drug use and her relationship with Robyn, which he saw as completely undermining their marriage. There was no social media at the time, but I remember reading somewhere how Bobby kept getting blamed for Whitney's drug use but Whitney was actually way worse than he was, and nobody would believe it. She was undermining HIS sobriety! For what it's worth some reporter sat in on some soap opera star's meeting and reported on her sex addiction (I didn't know she had a sex addiction but she did sleep with an engaged friend of mine). I wonder it his drove celebs away from AA style support groups or if the groups input some kind of control. I don't generally feel badly for celebrities but when tabloids started doing that it was disgusting.

R237, if you can't believe someone would go that far in the '80s to stay closeted, then you're the fucking retard.

And you're fucking charm-free, too. Ugh. Have another scotch, cunt.

R221 I don't believe Whitney would ever have come out. The weight of the lie was too great.

I believe that too she would die closeted no matter at what age

You stupid asshole, R240, improve your reading comprehension. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WHITNEY WOULD BE PRESSURED TO MARRY WHITE in the 80s, NOT stay closeted, you dumb retard. Highest grade level 5th? I'd believe it.

In one interview she said 'they wanted me to do what Diana Ross did, marry a white guy'.

I think the black church thing was so much of her persona and what dominated her life, she just couldn't break away from it. It's one thing to wanting to marry a black guy, but it's entirely another thing to marry someone who's abusive and violent like Bobby Brown and to hook up with Kardashian trash like Ray J.

I think she wasn't only a drug addict, she also was a sex addict. Brown OKed the drug live she wanted and he could also serve as her willing sex slave. She put up with the abuse because her religious upbringing prevented her from getting a divorce.

Why would her religious upbringing prevent a divorce? Cissy divorced 2 husbands.

R222 don't think she was a lesbian, she was bisexual

You already said it a million times and you know that is not true but keep repeating

[quote] I find it very difficult to feel sorry for her.

You are way too judgmental. She didn't slide into addiction because she was a bad person. She was in pain. She couldn't check out, she couldn't stop the train because many, many people were depending on her. Her soul was crushed under the weight of that expectation -- family, church, community, shareholders, etc. -- everyone was invested in her living a lie. That is a horrible burden to bear, she did not deserve it.

R245, all she had to do was pass out and spread her legs, that's not "bisexual." There were no male dates before Bobby Brown. And discard the Randall Cunningham and Eddie Murphy hoaxes.

R246 She was in pain

I still don't know why she was in pain and needed drugs she had a career she was with the woman she loved what else one can want

R243 is mad post your bs somewhere else. I believe she was addicted to sex too but what's with this bs sex slave horror story with Bobby Brown you need help

Anyone remember those posters that went in New York, showing two similar performers side by side, and naming the straight one and the one in the closet? For example, it had Mariah Cary and Whitney Houston posters side by side, Mariah was the straight one and Whitney gay. Although I live here, I'd only read about the posters and never seen them until I was on Lafayette heading north and I saw the Whitney / Mariah one. It was daring gorilla street tactics at the time.

Didn't those tabloid pics of her bathroom feature a dildo? I expect part of why it lasted with Bobby is that they could do drugs together but also alone. She could be high in her bedroom while he was off getting fucked up elsewhere. One wouldn't bother or make demands if the other when they had the same goal.

I don't tend to believe she was a straight out lesbian, she did have chemistry with Brown.

Maybe it was a combination of her religious upbringing, the desire to have a family and kids that made her become straight. But I think she wasn't totally opposed to sex with men. She had a relationship with Jermaine Jackson.

She had a few merkin that still doesn't make her straight

Remember when she bearded for pedo Jacko

R251 Didn't those tabloid pics of her bathroom feature a dildo?

I don't remember the picture but I remember the reports it was a big purple (or blue?) dildo

and she did also self harm she had scars on her body

R251, women don't get off with a dildo. But of course your porn freak mind wouldn't know that.

R246 you are absolutely correct. All these judgmental clueless fools. Definitely the LSA crowd. Biggest star in the world, married to a half wit illiterate, bipolar abusive asshole that didnt take his meds and told her day in and day out “yr just a pop princess and you have no soul.” So no, It wasnt the booing at Soul Train - it was life with this clown who took her Bently to MA only to have his friend die in gun fire inside her torched car. Yeah that kinda life. Makes hanging out with Robyn, Bebe bringing that fine power from Detroits best dealer - look lame by comparison. A little swimming, walks, fine food, hitting the clubs in NYC with the Limo Driver - all so damn swell.

Except that she was the worlds biggest star married to the worlds biggest asshole, crazy worried about her daughter and supporting an entire Naval Fleet of leeches that wondered when she was “going on Tour again.” Oh yeah and hoping Robyn wouldnt be too fed up to take care of her.

Ellen Lavar found her alone in her pool house weeping from the pressure. All of that rode on her voice - what a fucking nightmare.

She could divorce Brown and marry to another merkin

Spoken like a true gay man. What use are dildoes to women if not to bring about orgasm?

Women don't use dildos except in porn, dear R261.

Women don't use dildos except in porn, dear R262.

source for dildo story in the link!

R263 they do not all but some

Wtf? Dildoes are only used by women in porn?!

[quote]women don't get off with a dildo

LOL

Orgasm has nothing to do with a dildo, dear gay male ones.

Why did that ugly perv troll have to start this in here? Blocking yr derogatory ass.

Are you talking about vaginal or clitoral? Have you had either?

[quote]Orgasm has nothing to do with a dildo

^male moron who's jealous of his GF's long lasting orgasm with her dildo^

R271, that's like asking a gay, "penis or ass?" Obviously, penis wins 99.999% of the time.

R263 LEARN HOW TO USE A DILDO FOR MAXIMUM SELF PLEASURE

I remember there was a big controversy about outing her - but her philanthropy, her quiet support of her LGBT friends, never hiding her gay crowd.... no one was going to do her harm. She was deeply beloved in NYC, her talent was without equal. That Mariah poster came about inthe mid 90’s that was all that came of it. Whitney LOVE was STRONG in NYC.

Everyone in Hollywood is gay no one was going to out her this only happens rarely in especial cases and she wasn't one

Can you imagine how incredible the ride in 1985-87 was for Whitney and Robyn? All thos Grammys, all thos awards?? Oh my God ... and she thanked Robyn alright. “And Robyn, I guess you will just have to stay with me...” Tops of the charts - Whitney was everywhere and Robyn was right there every step of the way.

I wonder if Robyn was embarassed by Whitney's dancing? Perhaps that's why Clive suggested she'd be better to marry white.

Well, if anyone didn't already know, they certainly know now, thanks to #MegaMouthRosieO.

Not thanks to Rosie - thanks to the people that loved her and wanted her fans to understand how truly hard it it was for Whitney. All of NYC already knew the deal: the old Cubby, the Duchess, Garage... the club in Princeton. We knew. We were fucking proud of her too!

The Paradise Garage? Why would people who enjoyed music there be proud of Whitney?

I would say maybe around 70% of Whitney fans can't accept her for who she was just a look at Youtube comments they are not fans of Whitney Houston they are fan of the fake image and persona

R282 I think you are correct... she has a lot genuine fans in here. We loved her as she was, we wished she could have been better cared for and not forced to be someone she wasnt. I do know someone not in the business that speaks glowingly of Whitney and Robyns relationship, a professional in the business of assessing couples relationships. I think Robyn would like to know that, if she can just look through the sad and grief for a second. She should know she was Admired by someone qualified on the topic.

Robyn is married with children. i never got the sense she was somewhere heartbroken and grieving her breakup with Whitney. It was an early relationship for both but the sexual part ended by the time Whitney married Bobby. They had a professional relationship as well as a personal one. When Robyn moved to LA in the 90s she was a popular figure and was surrounded by a harem every time I saw her. She definitely moved on

[quote] But I think she wasn't totally opposed to sex with men. She had a relationship with Jermaine Jackson.

Yes. The Jermaine Jackson rumors were around when she first emerged. Jermaine confirmed them after her death. He was married at the time of their affair and that would have been just as scandalous as her being a lesbian.

Is the creepy child abuse victim affect that the Jacksons have just for the camera? That little soft spoken kid thing is very offputting. I don't Whitney wanted a piece of that.

R285 The 90’s was Whitney’s most productive period. 3 films, television projects, with as much activity in LA for Whitney as in NJ, I doubt they were leading such separate lives. Her tours were fairly frequent also. So whatever period Crawford was in LA it wasnt Long. By the way she wound up resettled back in NJ. I dont think she was ever that far in proximity to Whitney. But good to know She had a “Harem.”

New documentary claims Whitney and her brothers were sexually abused by Dee Dee Warwick, Dionne's sister.

Lordy. I've heard Dee Dee was on heroin at one point. She also moved to Atlanta, though I don't know the chronology.

Robin Williams was a lesbian?

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Documentary alleges Whitney Houston was sexually abused as a child Whitney, which has the backing of the singer’s family, alleges Houston was abused by her cousin Dee Dee Warwick

I wondered if she was abused as a child and it was the root of her addiction and now we know the answer

Black women getting sexually abused by family members is a pervasive problem within the community. I bet tons of BW have backstories like Oprah.

What is Dionne's response?

Ugh. And of course homophobic fans of Whitney are going to use this abuse revelation as another way to attack/discredit Whitney's relationship with Robyn.

From what I've read, Whitney's brother Gary claims Dee Dee abused both him and Whitney. Whitney's longtime assistant Mary also states that Whitney spoke of being abused as a child by a woman.

I'm not really surprised that she was molested...I am shook that it was by Dee Dee Warwick

Same here. I own none of Whitney's music. I have all of the Dee Dee Warwick CDs on the market - only a handful, admittedly, but she has a small discography.

It's quite hideous to contemplate that Cissy took over Dee Dee's role as Queen Bee of the New York black backing singers when Dee Dee went solo, which effectively would have freed up Dee Dee, whose solo career never put her in great demand, to abuse Cissy's children while she was busy with session work. I guess John Houston was busy balls deep in random women.

Vulture says Mary Jones is the one who says Whitney named Dee Dee as her abuser. Gary claims he was abused by a female family member from aged 7 to 9.

Gary was born in 1957, so that's 1964 to 1966 for the years of abuse he references.

Dee Dee was born in 1945, so she was 19 to 21 in that time period.

Whitney was born in 1963.

Mary Jones also states that Whitney never told Cissy about the abuse.

The director confirms to Deadline that Gary also named Dee Dee as his abuser.

Pity the fool that comes in here and implies their relationship was due to this allegation. Have to take quite the leap to over look Biology, chromosomes and that thier relationship lasted anywhere between 9-11 years. Whitney was quite direct about pushing unwanted advances right off. Homophobia, that church scene and Mama’s endless harassment would have been enough to ruin her self esteem. Robyn was the one that spent her time building Whitney UP, evidently.

[quote] I'm not really surprised that she was molested...I am shook that it was by Dee Dee Warwick

Yes, the childhood sexual trauma is very plausible. I dare say Whitney exhibited signs of it in her personality -- the rage and moodiness. Cissy and John were on the road all the time. Whitney and brothers were left in care of others.

However, I am also surprised by the allegation that it was Dee Dee. She was a singer and also on the road with Dionne, Cissy and others. I would have guessed it was one of the caretakers.

Dee Dee didn't have her first big hit until 1966. It wouldn't surprise me if she didn't do a lot of travelling until then. She took her first trip to the UK in that year.

I don't think Cissy got into touring until the late 1960s. She was mainly a studio backing singer. She split with the Sweet Inspirations very early into the time they started backing Elvis Presley live.

I would hazard a guess that the abuse of Whitney happened in the early 1970s, when Cissy was trying to forge a solo career. Dee Dee's career was in the toilet. Her recording sessions for Atlantic were few and far between. Dee Dee's chart placings were ever more unimpressive. I'm not sure when she started singing backup in concert regularly for Dionne.

R308 doesnt know much about Whitney evidently. Whitney wasnt “raging or moody.” She forestalled the press with that to keep them off Robyn and later Brown. If she was pissy with the inquiry she had good reason. To her friends she was a good friend, there if they needed her and funny as shit so I dont know where you came up with that one. Also nada on the exhibiting behavior in her personality. Once again - she had strong boundaries in every public event. She was largely faithful in her relationships. So you are way off base. DeeDee was a mess of a person very sad. Terrible that she fooled with her cousins - that is evil.

R310, you are right I didn't know Whitney, only what she showed to the public. She was rageful and flippant in interviews, she was fiercely, fearsomely guarding secrets. That is the behavior of someone who experienced childhood trauma. Probably not who she was underneath but she was always in a defensive posture in public. All to hide shame and pain -- from where I do not know.

Dee Dee was a drug user and a known lesbian. Would never have guessed she was also a pedophile.

BTW, I do know people who interacted with Whitney. She was not always a pleasant person but that could have been the drugs.

By the way R311 you are waay off base. Childhood abuse survivors have myriad poor coping skills but MOSTLY they apply sexual gestures and behaviors to social interactions in appropriately. The rage stuff is fucklig flat wrong unless coupled with other mental health issues. Give it a rest. You are simply “the Whitney was a rageful loon troll.” So tired of you. Whitney was NONE of that.

Rosie is nuts and not a good source for anything.

Whitney was probably bi at most.

So Nippy was confused because she was molested by a woman as a child. See.

Dee Dee looks very butch here. Beautiful voice!!!

All those Houstons had extraordinary pipes.

Dionne Warwick, Dee Dee Warwick 5th Annual 'We Are Family' Foundation Gala

I'm only shocked that it's DeeDee Warwick

I read this on LSA

[quote]whitney's brother Michael was caught with an under age prostitute back in the 90s

Is this true or just rumors?

It's easy to blame it all on the druggie lesbian, isn't it?!

Is this a way to whitewash Whitney's image and trying to say that she was a hetero but confused woman so she had relationship with Robyn? If this is what they are trying to do it's just ridiculous

The docu was OKed by her family, the accusation was made by Mary Jones, her assistant who is also Whitney's aunt.

R320 Actually, Robin is one of the few people Whitney trusted. It was after Robin was banished from Whitney's circle that Whitney's train began to derail.

I'm watching the Whitney documentary "Can I Be Me" right now, coincidentally.

Asked about what led to his own addiction issues in the film, Gary tells Macdonald, “Being a child—being seven, eight, nine years old—and being molested by a female family member of mine. My mother and father were gone a lot, so we stayed with a lot of different people . . . four, five different families who took care of us.”

Well well well, drag back the 13th Century or the 1980s brutality towards gay people how refreshing Pat Houston, Gary Houston and Aunt Mary. Focus on the Family is going to eat this right up.

Whitney was smart - if she wanted to throw Aunt Mary off her attraction to women thats one way to do it. It would have been hard for Whitney to not believe this to be true herself - given the relentless IGNORANCE of her upbringing from her mother. Cissy didnt even consult actual Intervention specialists until after 2000. SHE thought it was a “genuine intervention” to hang out with Whitney for a couple weeks at her home. Cissy couldnt pray away the Gay anymore than she tried to pray away Whitney’s addiction.

Never before could I have imagined such profound damage done to one of the greatest musical talents in 21st Century. Fucking idiots in this family. Thanks Pat Houston - you really are a total idiot and clearly resented Whitney every single time she deposited a 5 figure check in your bank account.

ALSO Dee Dee was herself clearly abused by the entire family for being a Lesbian. Biology is real people.

[quote] By the way [R311] you are waay off base. Childhood abuse survivors have myriad poor coping skills but MOSTLY they apply sexual gestures and behaviors to social interactions in appropriately. The rage stuff is fucklig flat wrong unless coupled with other mental health issues. Give it a rest. You are simply “the Whitney was a rageful loon troll.” So tired of you. Whitney was NONE of that.

Some people just want to start mess...

You ain't tired of me cause I don't even know you. You have no idea what you are talking about. Childhood sexual abuse DOES result in rage and aggressive social behavior in adults. It doesn't only manifest in homosexual orientation or sexual promisicuity, Anita Bryant. Whitney was rageful but most certainly not a "loon" -- you have that market cornered. If you knew Whitney, fine, just share what you DO know but otherwise stfu with your foolishness.

R 326 finally brings it to the DL LGBT website “It doesn't only manifest in homosexual orientation or ...”

We knew this was coming, kind of proves the existence of ignorant homophobia doesnt it?

No, it wasn't me. It was implied by the shit-stirrer at R313 as follows:

[quote] Childhood abuse survivors have myriad poor coping skills but MOSTLY they apply sexual gestures and behaviors to social interactions in appropriately.

I don't believe in a causal link and that is why I attributed that line of thought to "Anita Bryant." The only point I was making is that childhood sexual abuse can manifest in adults as unusual rage and aggression.

R313 here I stand by my remarks. Children of repeated years long sexual abuse do exhibit faulty relationship skills, viewing most interactions as something to be negotiated via sexual encounters. Deal with it. That is why I tend to think that whatever happened TO Whitney with her cousin was prob not long lived. Horrific absolutely, repeated for years - NO. Whitney was very very good at telling people to fuck off when they were inappropriate.

R313 here, I am absolutely NOT saying that DW had anything to do with her sexual ORIENTATION - which is entirely separate from this revelation.

Gary Garland-Houston, alleges that both he and Houston were sexually abused by Warwick when he was between the ages of seven and nine. (Houston would have been a toddler at the time.)

I think few people may have known about it and there have been so many other revelations lately in the industry maybe they felt it was time.

Jones suggested the alleged trauma stuck with Houston throughout her life, causing her to question her own sexuality and contributing to her struggles with drugs.

If Whitney had wanted to talk about it, she would have talked about it herself.

I think there are too many people who knew she was really a lesbian and they are probably paying too much money to keep it hidden. So this is perfect for Cissy- she was sexually abused as a child. And I read that someone in the documentary said this is why she had a sexual identity crisis. This will be their excuse everytime someone says they knew she was a lesbian. And Praise the Lord, it was not really her fault, she was abused and misguided, so she gets to go to heaven. Cissy and the wacko churchgoers will be happy this problem was solved! Otherwise, why would you air your family's dirty laundry like this when this was never a rumor? I feel sorry for Robin, this is very condescending to her. I know she has taken the high road, but I wish she would say something. On the other hand, maybe this is to shut her up, because the wacky church people and Cissy will say she took advantage of Whitney. This whole thing is actually pretty screwed up.

R335 I think there are too many people who knew she was really a lesbian

Everyone in the industry

“I realized that actually is not the story,” said MacDonald. “[Houston] only had, [bold]as far as I’m aware, one proper homosexual relationship, with Robyn Crawford, which people know about. I think that only lasted quite a short time.[/bold] I found some documentation that proves, without a doubt, that it was a romantic relationship between them . . . The real story, as I dug deeper, had to do with her family, and to do with race, I suppose, and her childhood.”

[quote]I think that only lasted quite a short time

Their relationship didn't last a short time I thought Whitney and Robyn were in relationship since they were teenagers till Robyn left in 2000

This is Cissy trying to push the narrative she only dabbled in the homosex. The real problems were the molestation and race. We are going to use the race card, even though her artistry was so loved by white people blacks didn't think she was black enough, and molestation to explain the drugs instead of that Cissy is a homophobic bitch.

R339 We are going to use the race card, even though her artistry was so loved by white people

Exactly you are absolutely right it was so obvious in Can I be Me docu too

R339 This is Cissy trying to push the narrative she only dabbled in the homosex.

I'm not sure if it's Cissy doing this or someone else

R341, Cissy admitted in her interview with Oprah she would not have liked it if Whitney was gay. And the look on her face when she said it was one of disgust. She belongs to the type of black church were gays go to hell and that's why they can't abide homosexuality.

R341 I feel pretty sick about this. It really really is a horrible insult to Robyn. Pat & Gary are horrible and would do anything to deflect from the way they botched caretaking of Krissi resulting in her death. Those two would sign off on anything Cissy wanted.

I expected much much better from the other SIL, but not even she can push the River Houston.

R342 I have seen that interview

Cissy certainly comes from the Sunday School Church that says ”homosexuals molest to recruit.” That was exactly the way she treated Robyn Which makes it so much harder to see this. One doesnt cause the other, I know I sure wasnt and never have myself. Absurd fucking haters. It was good to see someone throw the BS flag and note that Dee Dee is dead, Whitney has passed and neither of them are here to address this.

For my money Aunt Mary as beloved as she may have been by Whitney - was a damn fool. She failed her in her duties. “Take a bath Nippy Ill be right back. But first let me give you all these OTC drugs - here if one is good 2 or 3 is better....” Whitney was stuck with the F Team. Goddamn shame.

Just about everyone in the circle indicated that Whitney and Robyn were still in and out with each other. Brown was so emotionally abusive, unmediated bipolar, Whitney was prob always looking for comfort and love. How could she not be? She got high to deal with that fucked up calamity of a marriage. Familiarize yrself with the Top 10 Hit Parade of Booby Brown. It would blow your mind at his basic criminality.

Shortly after Whitney's death, Aretha made this statement:

“Parents have to really talk to their children before they leave home,” she said. “They have to make sure when they leave home, they have all the right things. She left home with all the right things, but she just kind of lost her way along the way".

Pat married her older brother on the heels of his divorce from his 1st wife Monique - who divorced him for horrific narcotic abuse around her and the kids. Pat walked into family through the door marked “Opportunity.” When Brown finally succeeded in pushing Robyn out the door Pat became Whitney’s new assistant. Apparently Pat could present well, she had briefly been a model in NYC, sorta touchy feely. Whitney liked that.

Vanity Fair article about Whitney Nd the new Documentary.

[quote] I think there are too many people who knew she was really a lesbian and they are probably paying too much money to keep it hidden. So this is perfect for Cissy- she was sexually abused as a child. And I read that someone in the documentary said this is why she had a sexual identity crisis. This will be their excuse everytime someone says they knew she was a lesbian. And Praise the Lord, it was not really her fault, she was abused and misguided, so she gets to go to heaven. I

You are awfully jaded and cynical to think someone would malign their own family member (Whitney and/or Dee Dee) in such a cold, manipulative way.

And yes, it occurred to me too. I think ANYTHING is possible with this family.

Yes “Aunt Mary” said that. So Gary, who has such a big mouth is so eager to talk about it - how could the family NOT know? If he kept his sisters confidence I will be surprised. A child’s earliest memories occur around the age of four. Gary claims to have been molested when he was 8, 9, 10. Since he was nearly 10 years older than Whitney that would have been years later.

I will believe Whitney because it in the duty and responsibility to believe a child. But if this family allows this to become a Focus on the Family issue our Community needs to respond to both support Whitney and be a voice of reason and respect.

So many people came down on Aretha for not attending the funeral out of jealousy for Whitney, when the truth is, Aretha loved Whitney. She was never jealous of Whitney, she just knows how the Drinkard and Houston family really is. Everyone in the gospel world knew. It's one of the most scandalous music worlds out there full of sex, drugs, alcohol abuse, and mental disorders under the veneer of Jesus and singing for the Lord. There are some classic LSA threads about the Rev. Franklin (Aretha's dad), Cece and Bebe Winans, and of course the Warwick/Drinkard sisters. The gospel world makes the secular world of pop, hip hop and r&b look like pre-K. , Dee Dee was a noted bipolar and bisexual alcoholic and alleged heroin addict. Her career faded in the late 60s/early 70s. Cissy started touring with Sweet Inspirations/Elvis around that time. John was too busy fucking other women on the side. The movie claims Whitney was molested from age 7-9 by Dee Dee. She never told her mother. Pat and Gary Houston are pieces of shit for putting that out there. I am sure Whitney did not want that secret out there for the world to know.

The movie claims Gary was molested from 7-9. I haven't seen reference to Whitney's age range when she was molested.

Bobbie Brown confirmed it too.

Aretha treated Whitney like shit the day they recorded a duet - the utterly undistinguished "It isn't, It wasn't...". I don't believe she failed to attend the funeral because of any noble intention.

Bobby confirmed it outside of the doc?

R285 It was an early relationship for both but the sexual part ended by the time Whitney married Bobby.

lies, lies and more lies

Whitney really did come across angry and aggressive in interviews. She also has this 'I am better than you because I speak to the Lord' attitude.

Messed up woman, too stupid to see who were the leeches in her life. She became close friends with Kim Burell in her last years. She had a lot of Cissy in her, the hypocrisy, the arrogance, the narrow mindedness, the trashiness ...

Good on Robyn she escaped it all.

This old video really highlights the 'hidden' lesbianism of Whitney. It makes me sad to watch it, and to think of the life she could have led. I imagine that it is Robin who Whitney is riding off with at the end.

New Whitney Houston Doc Shows Daughter Bobbi Kristina Using Drugs, Hints at Suicide Attempt: 'She Hated Her Life'

SECRET HEARTACHE Bobbi Kristina wanted to kill Whitney Houston ‘in a way that would look like an accident’

Damn, with people like Pat Houston in your life you sure don't need enemies. Whitney was surrounded by vipers and they were in her own family.

R352, Gary was only 6 years older than whitney. He was born in '57, whitney in '63. He said he was being abused from age 7 to age 9. So whitney would have been 1 year old when it started and 3 when it stopped. No idea when Dee Dee started abusing whitney, but pedos typically have a preference for specific age ranges. So it probably started around age 7 for whitney too. She was old enough to remember and also wondered out loud if she had perhaps led Dee Dee on.

Isn't it weird that Dee Dee molested both genders girls and boys ?

I don't know much about molestation. Do abusers tend not to cross genders? I was struck by a comment about how sexually abused people often use sex as a given in negotiating relationships. Let's say Dee Dee was abused herself. If she was repeating patterns, would the sex of her abuse victims be paramount or their age, proximity to her in age, family relationship etc.?

R353 Yes I want to believe that Aretha loved Nippy, but the Narada story about “It isnt, it wasnt” session was harsh. Still all of the women vocalists were intimidated by her, Madge and her bras, Babs and her dull rich voice, yeah and I have to say Auntie Ree. Still I have also heard what that closeted world is like in Gospel... cause I know the gay guys hang there and. That is where we get our BEST Musical theater folks. Also Whitney’s band leaders and musicians and backup singers.

I could tell YOU a story about Cece & Bebe and thier druggie ways like packing it in from DTW to NJ, kinda thing. Saints my ass those two biggest hypocrites in the music world. At least Whitney was honest, too damn honest for her own good. ZERO respect for the Wynans.

This BK stuff is awful, wonder where that bit of joy came from? The poor kid didnt have a normal life after she graduated from Montessori. She was loved,but didnt W keep her out of school after a certain age? After “Being Bobby Brown” hit the airwaves or something? Who could exploit her any better, other than her father, than by including stuff like that? Whitney was devoted to her daughter - who else did she have?

Terrible that Dee Dee ... I cant even say it. Fkin perv of her. Like Whitney didnt have enough to deal with in her life. She was so easily shamed too, her mom all of her life taking shots at her, so over compensating for traveling all the time. You just dont tough love girls like that. Whitney wasnt going to do it to Krissi either. R365 thank you for clarifying that info. I thought he was much older.

YEs, but DeeDee was so mentally unstable I bet half the time she was out of it, high. Oh So sad and sorry for Whitney. Just sad for all. R359 is blocked -this idiot troll goes anywhere WH name appears and drags her. Never gets tired of it either. I swear it is an Ariana “I’m the new Whitney” Grande fan.

R358 thank you “lies lies and more lies” yeah they did go the distance.

As a Lesbian that surly Attitude is really useful when inthe closet. I used it on the regular. Easier than hanging out a a “Just STOP” sign.

Bobby wasn't anything more than a merkin for Whitney

Whitney couldn't be devoted to Bobbi because Whitney was a drug addict.

The rumour of Bobbi wishing to kill Whitney predates this doc. At one pojnt Whitney cancelled Bk's birthday party. Bk went for her with a knife. It's been said BK slit her wrists on the same day.

[quote] Whitney cancelled Bk's birthday party

Why?

[quote] So many people came down on Aretha for not attending the funeral out of jealousy for Whitney, when the truth is, Aretha loved Whitney. She was never jealous of Whitney, she just knows how the Drinkard and Houston family really is.

Chile...the Drinkards were amateurs compared to the Franklins. Aretha was pregnant at 13; by whom only Jesus knows. The Rev. Franklin f*cked every woman who looked at him, including Clara Ward who was otherwise a God-fearing lesbian who turned out every young girl in the gospel world. Aretha's mother abandoned the family because she could not live in Rev. Franklin's house of sin. Aretha's younger sister Carolyn was an open and notorious lesbian whose secular career was sabotaged by the Rev Franklin because he didn't want his openly lesbian daughter to become too well-known (shades of Dee Dee Warwick). The Drinkards are wholesome compared to Aretha's family.

I'm not certain know why. I think it happened when BK was living with Gary and Pat. Whitney whirled in (from rehab? I don't know) and wanted to take her daughter away.

What about Carolyn's lesbianism was notorious? And didn't Aretha put the nail in the coffin of Carolyn's performing career by agreeing to record the songs from Sparkle, a project that was originally to Carolyn?

*originally offered to Carolyn?

[quote] What about Carolyn's lesbianism was notorious?

Nothing. "Open and notorious" is just a phrase that means "known to everyone." Rev. Franklin was instrumental in nurturing the gospel and secular career of Aretha. He did the same for Erma to lesser effect. He refused to help Carolyn in any meaningful way. Everything she managed to do as a recording artist was through her own effort.

Regarding "Sparkle", I found that story odd. I can't imagine Curtis Mayfield would have selected an unknown singer (Carolyn) for the soundtrack over the girls in the movie. I think he wanted Aretha all along. However, in the David Ritz account, the family all agreed that the deciding vote in the Carolyn vs. Aretha squabble was Daddy Dearest. Once again thwarting any chance Carolyn had.

[R359] is blocked -this idiot troll goes anywhere WH name appears and drags her. Never gets tired of it either. I swear it is an Ariana “I’m the new Whitney” Grande fan.

Totally wrong R368, I actually was a big fan and still think she was an amazing talent, on par with the greats, but it was a bit infuriating to see how she destroyed her life and how she herself mostly was responsible for her downfall.

Somebody should have dragged her out of that vicious circle of hypocritical churches, hood trashies and drugs. But she was not smart enough to see who and what was wrong in her life.

No one cares about Ariana she can't even pronounce properly

R366, not weird at all. Dee Dee was bisexual.

People are really misinformed about child molestation. It's not the stranger on the street or park bench that molests children at a significant rate. Most molestation happens within the family or by a close family friend. It actually surprises me Whitney wasn't fat. Many molested children put on weight as a subconscious way of making themselves unappealing to predators. Rosie O'Donnell talked about that. She was molested by a family friend (a man), and she said the weight issues stem from that. I also think many predators have a sixth sense of a child's true sexuality if that makes sense, and they prey on that.

Dee Dee wasn't a bisexual she was a pedo

How does she know? I’m sure Whitney was hay but I can’t imagine her associating with the likes of Rosie O’Donnell

^ because it wasn't a secret and she wasn't hiding except from us of course

I don't know about this whole story. I think whatever story Pat Houston is trying to push needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Her assistant Mary Jones, who is also her aunt seemed phony during that interview they did with her for the last docu 'Can I Be Me'

Something is fishy about the whole story.

R381 Back in the 90’s Rosie wasnt the Rosie of today. She had the most popular show, besides Oprah of course. Rolling in the dough. Also there were always secret gay girl parties - so you dont think gay folks like socializing cause you arent. Right? Maybe you missed the clear message that Rosie EXPECTED her social friend to fulfill her obligation to show up. Most of us didnt.

But really most people can take or leave Rosie - the only ones that grievously dislike her are “Cult of Trump” haters.

R380 Dee Dee identified as Gay, but she was burdened with mental illness. One was related to her most intimate relationships. The other governed her conduct, actions and judgment. That was the issue with her horrible abuse of children. UNSPEAKABLE.

Try to keep up.

Rosie and Whitney were embroiled in a nasty feud for a while, a lot of which Rosie was responsible. Yes, Whitney didn't show up when she should have, but Rosie was publicly annoyed and started trashing Whitney on her show, singing "I Will Always Hate You" among other things. Whitney did reschedule and show up, but Rosie still took shots at her in public after the fact. Rosie is very difficult to deal with at times.

I believe Aretha loved Whitney, but also viewed her as competition. In the book Respect, it was said that she did feel bad over how she treated Houston, and considered calling her up to apologize. Aretha is tremendously gifted but not happy with anyone being considered legitimate competition. Around the same time as the Whitney incident, she was extremely pissed over Anita Baker's success.

Anyone catch the review where Mikey refers to Robyn as “evil?” I BET he feels that way. Recall the interview where he said he would disappear to “Nippy’s for days at a time getting high.” Can only imagine that Crawford wanted to kill that man. That bit should be obvious because both Gary & Michael loooved Booby, loved him so much!

It certainly deflects from him to attack Robyn. Also notice who keeps her mouth shut about all of it that would be Michaels wife. She suffered like hell, one can only imagine. Kids to raise, with Mikey dragging them all down.

Still she kept Nippy, Inc running. Whitney, DH and Robyn took care of business while the Lords of the family laid up ruining their lives.

Gary Houston's ex wife had a lot to say about the addiction problem in the family. I wonder whether she was interviewed for the docu as well.

You can bet Pat shut her out. Monique divorced Gary because of his ugly addict behavior in hopes he would hit rock bottom, and to save her kids. Evidently Pat swept in caught Gary before he hit that bottom.

R388 Thank you. She is a very intelligent woman, “if something had been done early with Gary and Michael it would’nt have snowballed and become such a problem...”. Her brothers introduced and kept Whitney using, Robyn couldnt do a thing about it. I expect they hung out at her home for very long weekends.

Then Brown came along as principle enabler because a stoned Whitney was far more accommodating finance wise.

It seems the Houston clan shut out any reasonable person who tried to intervene with the rampant drug problems. Eventually Whitney fell into the same habit and she decided in favor of drugs, family and religious brainwashing instead of Robyn.

The religious right pedals Reparative Therapy for LGBT “Christians” to cure their sexual orientation - basically that means totally focusing On Jesus 24/7 instead of yourself. Pretty much that is what Whitney was trying to do. Loving Crawford, dealing with the abuse she kept secret. Tragic, just tragic.

Fortunately many reports also illustrate the confusion, emotional conflicts that LGBT people face when surviving such horror. Notably Time Mag says the idea that Gay people “statiscally suffer greater rates of sexual abuse is completely incorrect.” On LSA that has actually already been stated, the stuff of raging homophobes. Look no further than children of Heterosexual molesters to counter that insidious bigotry.

Still Whitney survived. She maintained her business, buried her misery in her remarkable career, ultimately shed Brown - that was her most notable effort to fight for her mental/emotional health.

Whitney was open with everyone about being gay — just not with her fans.

R392 She dated women after Robyn left so no she wasn't trying to cure her homosexuality by focusing on Jesus

[quote]Maybe it was, but I remember seeing interviews with her and she always came across as not very bright

Whitney was a rocket scientist compared to Beyonce

Everyone is a rocket scientist compared to Beyonce

Whitney loved her career and status more than her girlfriend Robyn coming out just wasn't an option Whitney would even consider

For someone who loved her career, she sure threw it away.

Some Women when given the opportunity to use new power to be “Change Agents” do not hesitate. Whitney is an example of that with her philanthropy. While she didnt graduate Yale Law - she did share a characteristic of woke women like Clinton which was a desire to serve the greater good. If that is “status” she handled it very well. See “Classic Whitney @ Constitution Hall.”

Whitney would just as soon die before she would ever ‘come out, in fear of losing 80% of her fanbase

She still could hold a tune in her later years, still bring magic to it.

This is all true. I remember she was outed in Rolling Stone in the early 1990s.

R397 she certainly surrounded herself with LGBT employees/friends and could care less about what her personal circle thought of it. Ironic that her mother who made her miserable as hell about Robyn has approved a film that finally, openly discusses their relationship and had to use the utterly damaged Michael to drag her. Robyn was very popular in Whitney’s crowd.

Spectacular images of Whitney. She deserves a great turnout for this film...

So funny about the Wynans. In the 80s my mom and I caught an airing of the PTL club, way before they became famous to the tabs. We used to watch the show to see Tammi Faye's clothes, make up, and crying jags. It was better than a sitcom. The two Wynans were the lead singers in the PTL choir group and sometimes sang with Tammi. That's where I first saw them. I wonder if they talk about that much.

Robin Williams was a lesbian.

That is a funny story R408, got to love your Mother for watching those crackpots for laughs.

Didn’t know that is where they got thier start, Whitney gave them a tremendous boost. BeBe repaid that when he wrote the 1st Whitney reveal before the ground she was buried in thawed from the winter. Opportunist asshat, violent wife beater - tortured closet case and drug smuggler. That is all.

R408, on my birthday or Christmas I got a card and opened it to find a pic of Jim and Tammi Faye and the two freaky kids! You could call the prayer line and ask them to send out a card for free, I can't remember which holiday it was, but my mom did it as a joke. We laughed so hard.

If you watched that Showtime documentary, Robyn was a very obvious stone-cold dyke.

Robyn was very open about who she loved. Whitney was also very very butch when not working glamour patrol. SO what? It’s was the day it was the time. The only outward manifestation that they were a couple - they couldnt marry or share rings - was they did as many women couples did they shared a pair of earrings. A LOT of us were doing that - in her case it was a pair bearing a cross and circle, very unique. Quite amusing to see all the church ladies miss that one- not to mention the denial of its relevance. The gay press didnt miss that one and it was commented upon Until the day it stopped.

Also you are missing that Robyn herself was a gorgeous woman, tall, athletic and no so much yr stereotype “Stone cold butch” ridiculous, cause when dressed for award shows with Whitney she was a head turner herself.

No, Robin was quite butch. Nothing femme about her.

They were a seriously hot couple.

Didn't know Aretha's sister Carolyn was lesbian. She wrote two classic Aretha songs that listening them now seem like lesbian longing: "Ain't No Way" and "Angel"

Dionne pats herself on the back for all the work she's done for AIDS. Did she do anything to help her sister? Help Whitney? She definitely had the nerve and the power to put her finger in Cissy's face and tell her to let her daughter live the way she wants. Or is this a case of you love the gays as long as it's not in your family, which is actually worse than being straight up homophobic.

A VERY seriously hot couple! You need to google harder, Crawford was not a straight persons stereotype - she could def Fem out. Gorgeous!

I don't think Dionne and Whitney were all that close, it's possible Dionne had no idea how bad things were.

This was a family of religious obsessive at the height of the AIDS epidemic and gay bashing across America. Who remembers the story about Dionne and who? Standing off to the side laughing that “this ought to end the gay rumors.”

Great link to brief videos of Whitney and Robyn from the upcoming film “Whitney.” Dont miss it!

Does Cissy talk about how she taught her daughter everything spiel for the 50th time in this docu?

Dionne kept Dee Dee employed as a background singer even after having to fire her multiple times. I read a late 70s article when Dee Dee was trying to relaunch her singing career as a headliner. She said Dionne had taken on managing her.

Well Macdonald does say that deception was the order of the day when he started his investigation. While respecting Cissy’s grief I felt like this film was rebuttal to “Can I Be Me” harsh view of “I taught her everything she knows - I made her!” Cissy. We wont know until July.

What's tragic here is that Dee-Dee, (who had her own issues and tragic life), can't speak and defend herself. While the sexual abuse could have happened I think that this is just more of the Houston smoke screen that clouds the fact that Whitney Houston was just a plain ole lesbian and drug addict.

But doesn't the abuse claim have Gary as a victim of Dee Dee's as well? That muddies the waters about the old Anita Bryant "recruitment" narrative.

No question that Dee Dee was a child victim herself. As for her bros Gary & Michael sure they loved thier sister, its just that i wouldnt trust a word that ever came from thier addled lips. That Whitney sought comfort from her “assistant” about abuse trauma is the lock.

R7 Yes she's rumored to have Zika

[quote]As for her bros Gary & Michael sure they loved thier sister, its just that i wouldnt trust a word that ever came from thier addled lips.

I agree. Either of them will say whatever you like if it meant getting to a "hit".

The Houston family are like many others unfortunately. Cissy was not the best of mothers--now, wait a minute... She was the best mother that she could be given that she was not only a working mother but one that pursued her dreams of becoming a star recording artist. That was something that eluded her. Also, the father worked full time, and so when you have 3 kids growing up without an adult to keep their eyes on you a lot can happen. Kids will sneak and do whatever they want to do and they can be taken advantage of too. The one thing that probably kept them in line, so to speak, was New Hope Baptist Church. My church fellowshipped with New Hope and I'm aware of the family. In fact, if you're from Newark, anyone that could sing, and belonged to a Baptist church, we all knew and/or knew of each other. There was lots of experimental sex and drug use among our age group--nothing different from previous generations. Homosexuality was experimented with, (I'm still learning to this very day who were boyfriends or who slept with the same sex and I'm 57), and... just a lot of stuff. Much of this stuff has just aged with many of us. There are those who came to terms with their sexuality late in life. Others who just could not kick the drugs and will die as addicts, etc. And, through all of this what many of us cannot shake, (and can be a problem), is that "fire & brimstone" teachings of the Baptist church. Whitney and her family are not the only ones. They're just famous.

If you want to get a better sense of how we grew up just read the novel "Howard Street" if you can find a copy of it. My church was just a few blocks from it. But, there were a few "Howard Streets" in Newark at that time.

Article from 2013 about Cissy's view of Whitney.

[quote]I don't think Dionne and Whitney were all that close, it's possible Dionne had no idea how bad things were.

How could they be? Dionne was a top star at that time and traveling all over the world. While it depends upon how you define "close", I would argue that none of them are really "close" because many of them were occupied hustling for their own singing career. They knew that they were related to each other and loved each other because they were of the same blood and shared a familial background.

Cissy was nothing but a jealous heifer of her own daughter.

R430 that is a great article! Thank you. I agree R429 that Cissy and John had a huge mortgage to pay off (“probably redlined” made articially high in anticipation of reselling for higher price always targeting African Americans by racist realestate companies) so they were plenty busy “Gary (the 1st loser substance abuser 9 years older) can you watch Nippy and Michael?”

Taking issue with use of “experimental sex” by the time people are older teens they have pretty good idea which direction the strongest emotional intimacies and biological sexual impulses are headed. Whitney was dating Robyn, her meetings with her agent taking Crawford along to discuss future plans - that was hardly an “experiment” so lets be fair. Also they cohabitated in TWO apartments before settling in at Mendham together.

When community members, and I mean “Howard community” get real and understand how not only how directly Homophobia SHAMING crushed Whitney- then real conversations will create healing. In addition to the Jim Crow of economic survival hampering her family - then she had the double whammy of Baptist/New Hope terrifying her for loving her GF and made it altogether impossible to deal with Dee-Dee’s harming of her. Its like a “bridge too far” cause lifetime genuine biologically induced Girl Crush between Robyn & Whitney was twisted up in that story.

Of course any good LGBT Therapist would have been able to help Whitney sort all this out. Whatever good the Howard Mentality provided believing in prayer & civic action, strength for a better tomorrow utterly failed Whitney cause only via PRAYER could she hope Jeezus would pray the gay away. My instincts tell me that was her big aversion to Therapeutic rehab which is so very interpersonal group focused.

A group confession that “I am not living my authentic life” was a rehab stopper which was a terrible shame. She was apparently so charming she could have navigated those waters with ease. Oddly once you have met a person or two that will tell you sure she was gay - “you know that XXX man that she dated? Well I fixed her up with him” then you see how distraught they are that her “personal life” is all over the media, is telling. I dont know how she survived around people like that. Reinforcing her Shame about sexuality, no wonder drugs became her refuge.

What was John Houston's full time job?

I don't really recall, R434. I thought he worked for the city of Newark. He also managed Cissy's career.

[quote]Of course any good LGBT Therapist would have been able to help Whitney sort all this out.

I don't know. That King James is a TOUGH guy to beat! And, then you throw in 3-4 good gospel tunes.... nearly impossible!

I've read so much stuff, it's all started to blur together. But I thought Cissy was the breadwinner and John took care of the kids. However, he spent more time gambling and bedding women than really looking after the kids. Maybe I'm misrembering.

R435 Well right now Grifter, Racist Sessions is proving that Romans 13 is the most powerful of all. So please dont come in here with that, after all we know that Christians believe they are “the most persecuted Americans.”

See what I mean?

About :45 away were some of the best clinical LGBT psychologists, psychiatrists and counselors in the world. Whitney would have had world class medical help.

Both can be right, R436. Cissy could have made more money than her husband but she traveled quite frequently and therefore left John as the at-home parent. But, I do recall it being said that he worked for the city of Newark. Therefore, remember the times too. Many men were not as hands on as they are today when it came to child-rearing. Them kids could have been running around anywhere and doing anything. No one would have known what was really up unless you were there with them--and, some were.

I hear ya, R437. Many of these SAME people who were applauding the SCOTUS decision about the bakery a few weeks ago are now going; "Now, wait a minute..." My primary point was/is that the church--particularly the Southern Black Baptist Church, is a HARD thing to overcome, or to put into some type of logical perspective at least. THAT SPIRIT AND BELIEF IS STRONG!

I've written this here on some thread before but I'll never forget walking into a gay bar and expecting to hear all sorts of secular music. But, what I didn't expect to hear with all of that was going on was a group of black men over in the corner (and they were socializing among one another) singing "Jesus Will Fix It"! And, they were having he time of their lives too, honey! So! these are the conflicts that face many black people reared up in the church.

The clip below is from the old New Hope. Cissy was the Minister of Music. Don't just look at her but take note of the congregation and the choir too.

I was listening to Studio 54 on Sirius and heard Cissy sing for the first time. Her voice was big but the sound wasn't anything great and I can see why she didn't make it. Sounded nothing like Whitney's. So sad she is jealous of a daughter that sounded so much better then her. I would think she would be glad she influenced her daughter. And a son who says his mom should sue her daughter? That is just ass kissing. How likely is it Dee Dee would molest both sexes? Is that common? I can't help thinking this is to just explain away her "sexual identity crisis".

R493 Your post is moving and consilatory in very good ways. I happen to understand that several of Whitney’s orig band members were from New Hope, gay even. I also understand that Faith sustains in the time of Jim Crow and fucking Trump. I do not ever diminish anyone’s faith over issues like this. I have friends that were prob some of the gay men singing hymns in the corner of a Hells Kitchen Bar. That is a shared experience never to be diminished either.

As a feminist I do get Cissy’s struggle, as a lesbian I also get her jealousy of Crawford, subsequent resentment etc. But that is OLD! Bottom line is that Whitney married the most awful, immature Bipolar train wreck on earth because Cissy made her life with Crawford Hell on Earth. Cissy has suffered plenty, just awful. There is a part that makes me hope she reaches out to Crawford quietly with a huge apology.

I think folks give Cissy too much power in the narratives they put together. Robyn didn't leave the Whitney fold until the turn of the millennium. The single piece of footage from Can I Be Me that I found most striking was the award show (AMAs I think) where Whitney's parents were on one side of her and Robyn was on the other. If I recall correctly, Whitney even shouted out Robyn from the stage when she won. I never knew Whitney gave Robyn such prominence publically - her parents on one side of her, Robyn on the other. It sort of blew my mind. I've no doubt that Cissy marked Whitney in negative ways. She seems to have been a cold mother. But she didn't make Whitney break up with or sideline Robyn. Whitney made those decisions herself.

Robyn was the one who left Whitney. She couldn't stand the drug use, crazy behavior and Bobby anymore.

I taught my daughter everything she knew and don't y'all forget it.

I suspect that Robyn and Whitney broke up pre Bobby. But in typical lesbian fashion, they remained central in each other's lives for many years after the break up.

[quote]Robyn didn't leave the Whitney fold until the turn of the millennium.

In my opinion, I believe that Robyn left WH not just because of BB (I don't think he was her prime motivation) but more because of Whitney's family. WH was the meal ticket for a whole passel of her folks! They're leeches. That's why she pretty much died insolvent. It's the same with Dionne. With all of the advances that WH took against future royalties she wouldn't dare come out as a lesbian during the time. Not only would her record company have stopped it but the pressure of being the family provider would have too. Ah... The 80's feel like only yesterday but it most certainly was a different world.

[quote]I was listening to Studio 54 on Sirius and heard Cissy sing for the first time. Her voice was big but the sound wasn't anything great and I can see why she didn't make it.

I suppose that is a matter of tastes and opinions. I've always thought that Cissy was the best singer out of all of them. At one time, I placed her in the same league as Aretha Franklin. But yes, it's becoming more clear as time passes that Cissy might have held a bit of resentment and jealousy towards her own daughter.

[quote] But yes, it's becoming more clear as time passes that Cissy might have held a bit of resentment and jealousy towards her own daughter.

Not just recently, it has always been apparent. I remember magazine covers featuring Cissy and Whitney together, and thinking it odd that the superstar's mother featured so prominently in her life. I always felt like Cissy was hungry for her own fame and envious of Whitney

Also the crazy with Whitney decompensating at the Oscars and HNL airport. All Bobby all the time.

[quote] thinking it odd that the superstar's mother featured so prominently in her life. I always felt like Cissy was hungry for her own fame and envious of Whitney

Oh gosh, yes! And Whitney tried to give her mother the type of recognition and honor that she craved and felt that she deserved. But, Cissy truly is a major force in her own right. I guess it just was not enough for her. Anyway, a lot of people don't know this but Luther Vandross would pretty much not record an album unless he knew that he could have Cissy's voice as part of his background singers.

I still remember Cissy singing backup for Aretha in 2014.......

LOL! I think that was a pity booking that Aretha did for her friend, R451. Cissy is an old lady now. She's 84 now and was 80 when she did that performance. I'm sure the publicity didn't hurt Aretha either. The last time that I actually saw Cissy was probably 15 years ago. I used to see her at NJPAC all of the time. But, I don't think she gets around very well now.

I was at New Hope for this performance of hers. I'm not the queen's voice in the background. Anyway, with her talent she just never took off. It just goes to show you that you need more than just a voice. Odd enough, I just learned (because of this thread) that Dee-Dee recorded the song "Alfie" before Dionne did it. It's VERY nice! But, Dionne's version was released before Dee-Dee's version and it was Dionne that got all of the accolades and whatever else for the song.

Dee Dee recorded Alfie in London with Dusty Springfield's producer, Johnny Franz, and arranger Peter Knight. Dee Dee was amazed to see a big orchestra awaiting her as she tended not receive such support in the States. It was recorded and released in the UK in 1966. Why Mercury didn't release it until 1966 in the US is anyone's guess.

Does Cissy still smoke? I know Dionne does.

I wonder how Whitney, Michael Jackson, Prince and George Michael would handle their fame, media and their sexuality if they would have been introduced into the business in 2018. People are more opened minded today than in 1980’s.

Well, the first 3 would still never admit to it. In my opinion, another issue of Whitney's is that she did not want to be a lesbian and was ashamed to have those feelings--the religion thing. But alas, the flesh... Prince found God towards the latter part of his life. I personally wouldn't label Prince anything except to say that he was sexual and would roll whatever way. However, he might have even reached a point of just being asexual. Jackson was a pedophile in my opinion and there's nothing, (well, as of yet), that can convince me differently. George Michael was very out... and about after his arrest.

As far as the business, I believe that only Prince could have made it today and that's because of his writing and music skills. all of this is just my opinion.

For the record Whitney was pretty open about her sexuality with her friends - and all of Crawfords basketball girlfriends. She would ask her friends to set her up with men for public dates - bearding while lesbian. The same men that so many gay bashers SWEAR Whitney was in love with. So she was out to her friends - not to the public.

Well, Robyn was definitely around....

Sorry, Cissy was no Aretha. She had the voice for a back up singer, though.

In the 80's Whitney and Robin would openly go to the lesbian clubs. I had lesbian friends who would tell me every time they saw them in the clubs. It was not secret to the gay community in NYC at that time.

Well, this settles it for me. I never knew that Brown just came right out and said it;

"“I don’t think she was gay, I think she was bisexual,” stylist Ellin Lavar says in the documentary.

In his memoir, Brown writes that Houston’s lesbianism was “an open secret.”

“They couldn’t let Whitney live the life she wanted to live; they insisted that she be perfect, that she be someone she wasn’t,” Mr. Brown writes. “That’s why they wanted Robyn out.”

Also, drugs and Boston’s bad boy Bobby Brown helped Houston develop an approving black identity."

Knew Brown said that but this comment has implications. It struck me that Crawford and Houston were off and on during her marriage, Brown was such a nightmare, druggie self medicating Bipolar, violent, unpredictable rages towards Whitney. Through it all Whitney remained responsible artist - how impossibly hard that would have been without Robyn. When Brown insisted Whitney choose, she lost her only source of Love devotion and nurturing....drugs became her escape.

[quote]I wonder how Whitney, [bold]Michael Jackson[/bold], Prince and George Michael would handle their fame, media and their sexuality if they would have been introduced into the business in 2018. People are more opened minded today than in 1980’s.

Michael Jackson? more open minded about his pedophilia?

Whitney and Prince would rather die than to come out

R457 For the record Whitney was pretty open about her sexuality with her friends

but not with her fans

Anyone else amused that the new “Whitney” has an interview with a man named Brad Johnson? The story goes that Whitney would ask trusted friends to set her with a man for apublic “date,” Brad was one. I dont know if it was a few dates but evidently he fell hard for her and could never understand “what happened? Where did she go?” Whitney was happy at home with the wife. Its called Bearding.

Bobby Brown

that football player

gay comedian with high interest in trannys Eddie Murphy

Alvin Love

pedo Jacko

Jacko's bro

Tupac the rapist

all were Whitney's merkins

Did Whitney really date Ray J?

Whitney was rebooting her film career with “Sparkle.” I think she would have sought someone like this POS loser, young dumb and studly to enhance her sex appeal image. He was convenient, she knew him from Brandy and post his sex tape he seemed virile and a hunk. Very much in the image of Brown - she was older and could deal with young and stupid. He is that. She was his meal ticket to celebrity - he manipulated her & any substance abuse by his own posthumous accounts.

There is a recording of her saying to him “I will see you, but I wont HANG with you.” That is the sum total of it. Mind you, she previously was dating Brown and living with Crawford. She would never give up the safety/security of Her Girl - unless she absolutely had to. This boy toy, like all of them, were nothing without her.

I think the sex appeal image had sailed by the time Whitney developed a pot belly ("Whitney will never be fat!") and that permanent laryngitis. She could still be made to look beautiful but she'd already entered her matronly years. And anyway, Whitney was a square peg in a round hole when it came to selling sex to the masses. She was a soft butch woman. Her genuine kind of sexy was only really marketable to other women who like women.

She suffered from fibroids, that made her appear to have a weight gain. That is serious health issues - show a little enlightenment will ya?

[quote]I wonder how Whitney, Michael Jackson, Prince and George Michael would handle their fame, media and their sexuality if they would have been introduced into the business in 2018.

They wouldn't be famous because the radio wouldn't play their music. Maybe Michael Jackson.

Speaking of "I Say A Little Prayer" the linked performance was AMAZING! The riffs that WH was doing and Natalie Cole trying to keep up! They both are excellent in this performance but when WH was hot she was HOT!!!

I just read on a fan site- Robyn Crawford is writing a book!

I am so GLAD for her. Her eulogy was breathtakingly beautiful. This will be remarkably loving and the BEST piece about Whitney Of them all. There was sooo much love between them.

Crawford and esp Whitney endured total HELL in the struggle to remain a couple. Her fathers threats of mob hits, her mothers shitty bigotry, Now the brother rank homophobic hate.... when the truth was Crawford was trying to prevent the Bros from destroying her life further with their non stop drug abuse.

R469 Yes Whitney fake dated Ray J

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